I’d intended to promote the re-release of Searching for God Knows What this week, but haven’t gotten around to it because I’ve been thinking a lot about church. And apparently so have you considering the number of comments on yesterdays blog. Essentially, I asked if modern churches were mostly educational communities, spiritual community colleges, seminars or schools, and whether there was room for churches to diversify the learning experience without leaning so heavily on the lecture model. Your responses were terrific, eye-opening for me and remarkably objective. I couldn’t just let the conversation hang. I’m wondering if we can dream for a bit. I think a number of pastors and leaders might get a great deal out of this conversation, if we could just take it one step further. So that step involves this question:
If a church decided to go a period of time without a sermon, a sunday school teaching or a seminar or “traditional” Bible teaching of any kind (sitting down to study the book in a classroom style) how would you teach people about God and how would you teach them right theology?
I have a couple suggestions that I’ll throw out as examples of the sort of thing I am talking about, but I am hoping you will add even more suggestions in the comments.
1. Your church could plant a vineyard and grow grapes. You could do a study of the farming metaphors in scripture, teaching people bits of Christ’s parables that relate to soil, growth, dependence on God, the fermentation process of making alcohol, the celebration of new wine and so forth. You could even have a Jewish wedding at the end marking the first miracle that Christ performed. All of this could be translated into actual life lessons people could apply each week. You could bring in an outside vineyard steward to help with the process, and even teach about soil and conditions for growing.
2. You could figure out the jobs of each of the apostles and characters that interacted with Christ, and send different groups from your church to different locations each sunday to learn about fishing, carpentry, baking, and even tax collecting, and each week the congregation would learn how a person from that profession might experience and understand the gospel.
3. You could transform part of your church into a different country and culture, and each week people in your church could visit a culture where the church is doing mission work and so better understand how the reach of your church is global and how the church itself cannot be contained by a building.
4. You could recruit hundreds of non-believers who would be willing to come to your church and sit down with your parishioners for conversations about how they see and understand Christians. You would allow your church members to ask questions, but challenge them not to try to convert anybody, but rather to listen to somebody else’s perspective.
5. You could set up a multi-week experiential “game” in which members of your church try to get themselves and their families out of slavery only using limited resources, helping people understand the plight of millions of people around the country.
6. You could send out a mass e-mail saying that the actual building of the church will be completely closed for one month, but that the church must go on, and let the church itself (not the staff) figure out how. The staff could be on call 24/7 to serve the church in any way it needed in order to keep going. At the end of a month, you could have a huge dinner and allow people to share their experiences and see what the church had collectively learned, and whether people felt lost or empowered.
And the list could go on and on. So, what are your thoughts? What could churches do to create experiential learning paths that make church feel less like a school or a seminar and more like the world in which people live? In other words, how could we better throw people into a life of faith, rather than help people simply think about faith?







as someone who is living on the road it slays me how incredibly hard it is to get connected into a church. not THE church, ‘spread out through all time and space and rooted in eternity, terrible as an army with banners’ (lewis of course) but A church, with a sign with a name on it and a cross on the wall and everything.
i ask why are bars readily available and open late and full of easy conversation while the church is only open for a few hours on sunday, and maybe a mid week service. why does it take two months minimum to get a response back about joining small group? (this has been my experience in every single church i’ve attended and loved.. many) why does everyone look so damn uncomfortable and self conscious? why would striking up a conversation with a stranger seem incredibly out of the ordinary?
this isn’t as much a rant as a sad commentary. why aren’t we living the church? i have no answers, but it’s something i’ve been pondering myself.
i want to be part of a church full of broken people living life together.
come to my church. i know you’ll feel welcome.
what church is that:)
How about just cancelling the church service ONCE? (Without telling anyone!)
Just put on more coffee and cake and let everyone stand around and chat.
What would happen then?
http://www.sparklingadventures.com/index.php?id=831
Stop sermon for a while?
We’ll like it too much… Won’t bring them back…
We’ll just stop preaching I believe….
God bless you!
[...] Miller ( Blue like jazz) ask a similar question on his blog… He actually goes a step further… How about no preaching at all for a certain period of [...]
what if one went throught the Bible defining the behavior pattern of God. We all know so well the shalls and the shall nots but what if there was a time of concentration on the behavior pattern of God as revealed in scripture? And then a church would challenged to form and come around reflecting those behavior patterns both personally and corporately.
Why would we want people to hear the Bible less? Church is less than 2 hours a week already. Is there no time anywhere else in the week to do these things? Our churches need the word of God more than less. Then again, if the church isn’t preaching the Bible then I suppose it beats a self-help, self-centered, self-actualized chat that is sandwiched between lights and guitars.
Ben,
People may “hear” the Bible better when they see someone living the Bible more so than when they hear someone talk about the Bible. The idea here is not to get less Bible but to get the Bible from a different angle. The Bible lived is far more powerful than the Bible spoken.
My wife and son and I were travelling up to Washington a few weeks back. We weren’t too far out of Portland when we stopped to fill the car up with more gas and grab some coffee from a little drive-thru cafe (bad idea, cafes should never be driven through).
As we waited for our drink I noticed a small church nearby and I squinted to read their sign on the side of the road. It read, Such-an-such Bethel Church and below that, “No Service This Weekend — Closed for Treasure Hunting.”
I understand “Treasure Hunting” is something that Bethel and similar groups like to do…it’s basically just going out where people are, and waiting for God to lead you to pray for–or otherwise bless–someone in whatever way that He leads you to do this. Often, you may not know what the person needs. Perhaps, their cat is sick–or their child, who knows. Sometimes, you may have an impression–something that stirred inside of you as though God’s Spirit was speaking to yours and leading you to take action. The coolest part for me was to see that church’s sign.
You know, a sign is supposed to attract people. That’s what they’re used for. That’s why you stick them out on the road, in hopes that as someone passes by they will be intrigued or inspired enough to stop. (Or at least they’ll know where all the morally good–ok I’ll say it, righteous–people are at in town.) But these people were using their sign in all the wrong ways. Their sign told people, “Hey, Church is Closed. Dont come here. No one will be here. All programs are off. There won’t be any refreshment, no chit-chat, no fruit punch.”
Of course, I was thrilled to see such a sign. How refreshing. With one quick read of those, you knew that the church [building] was closed that week. It was dead and dark inside. But you also knew that the church [body] was alive and well, and out in the world, and doing the things that Christ did every day that He walked the earth.
So yes, I think you can do it. Don’t have any services for one week. Just but a big, fat “Closed” sign out front.
[...] 27, 2010 · Leave a Comment That’s a question that Donald Miller asked on his blog last week. As I thought about it I remembered this experience I just [...]
[...] 20, 2010 · Leave a Comment That’s a question that Donald Miller asked on his blog last week. As I thought about it I remembered this experience I just [...]
closing church sounds awesome I’m going to tell mine to do that. I’ve been feeling so bored at church services lately and always learn more about god when I’m just talking with my friends over coffee. I wish that was church and perhaps it is.
Don
I believe that it would be a great thing. What ever happend to fellowship and service. Imagine actually going out into the community, so many would be reached. Do we really have to preach every sunday and wednesday? It would be brave, but also healthy.
One of the things that I love about Miller is that he is not afraid to think outside the box. The brainstorming about how we can represent Christ well to the community and practically live out our doctrine and theology is a wonderful thing. However, I must raise caution to this idea. The Bible is God’s Word/His revelation to us. God gave us His Word/Bible so that we would know Him. I recognize that God communicates and reveals Himself through creation and different experiences, but it would seem to be rather ignorant for us to disregard Bible preaching if THE major means of His revelation to us is in the Bible. I give credit to Miller for thinking outside the box because preaching can be often boring, distant, irrelevant and often silly. Again, I as preacher can and should be constantly working at becoming a better communicator; however, just because some people think that the preaching is boring doesn’t mean that the means or the method is at fault. The Bible is not the issue…I think that we are the issue. In my opinion we should preach the BIBLE all the more because it is the one thing that transcends time, emotions, cultures, evil and never changes. We should stand on TRUTH. I challenge us all to think not how we can start doing church without Preaching, but how we as the church can be better preachers of the WORD.
I second all of this. Thanks Zach. The answer is not necessarily reforming the Sunday service (although many services could and should be reformed), because it is still the place where many people first turn in search of answers. We can’t rock the boat so hard that the newcomers can’t get used to the rhythm. I believe the answer lies more in the devotion of THE church. If we are truly sold out for God and love Him with all we got, like we are commanded to do in Matthew 22 and also in Deut. 6, then we would be in our churches pleading with our leaders to allow us to keep the church building open and serving, much like Kari alluded to a few posts before. The answer is probably not in cancelling service, which is probably the least threatening aspect of church, and therefore best for getting new believers acquainted. The answer, I believe, is in us (lay people and leaders) being so passionate about Jesus that we want to keep the building open at all times and create an atmosphere that is more accommodating than a bar. So passionate that members don’t just want to be in a small group, but want to be a member of a small group and then lead 4 other ones because they simply can’t get enough fellowship with believers. It is from these small groups that we can create such a bond and such fulfillment through fellowship that we can’t help but go out and serve together. How awesome would it be if a church held services on Sundays and was also a network of small groups in which everyone had an intimate connection to everyone because everyone was a member of a small group? I know it would be tough wrestling through these relationships and people would step on each others toes, but what better way to love God and our neighbor? True God-glorifying service isn’t going to occur until we are so full of God that we can’t help but have His love overflow. I am only a recent college grad and in a period of transition that doesn’t allow me to have a permanent church home right now, but imagining a church like I am envisioning, in which everyone is so intertwined through mutual relationship and love for Jesus that it is contagious is giving me goosebumps. I question whether all of us replying through posts are committed enough to Jesus to give 4 or 5 nights of our week solely to Him. This is the only solution. The American church doesn’t work because the American churchgoers aren’t willing to work, and we aren’t willing work because we haven’t fully grasped how sweet it is to live a life a totally glorifying Him.
I second all of this Zach. Thanks for it.
I really believe that WE as the church are the problem. If we are as sold out about God as we like to think we are, then we wouldn’t even be talking about cancelling service. We would be saying things such as: “The service could be better but I love it just because we are gathered in the name of Jesus” and “The service isn’t really satisfying all I want, what else could we be doing?” The solution isn’t efficiency, the solution is time. If we whole-heartedly believe that we are living for a day in which we are going to meet Jesus, time shouldn’t be an issue. Our question shouldn’t be, “Can’t we cancel service and just have small groups?” but “Sunday service, small groups, and helping in the nursery isn’t enough for me, can’t I be in more than one small group?” Until we have that type of passion then the church is not going to be reformed into anything worth boasting about.
What Kari wrote a few posts ago really resonated with me. The church should be lightyears more accommodating than a bar. The fact that it isn’t should insult us as believers, “Are you trying to tell me that profits and alcohol are more powerful than my God!?!?” We gotta pray for our staff and leaders at our churches that they will be so passionate about Jesus that they want the church building to be the most accommodating place in town, and it to occur in His name. If we don’t see them moving, then we gotta pester them and be in their ear about how they gotta let us open a coffee and book shop in the church that will open early and close late, to which we feel comfortable inviting friends and engaging in meaningful conversation about our LORD.
We shouldn’t be satisfied with one night a week being devoted solely to God. Why should we stop at being in one small group. We should be so thirsty that we want to be a member of one small group and be a leader of four others. How beautiful and accommodating would a church atmosphere be if the entire body was intertwined in relationship through small groups that met both in the church and houses? It is from these gatherings that we would be so overfilled by the love and joy of God that we couldn’t help but move into service. There is no way that we could sit around 5 nights a week and just talk about God and not do anything to serve in His name. It is through these groups that we would be mobilized to serve together. I get goosebumps thinking of such a church.
Sorry I’m filling the board up! I didn’t think my first post went through because of a weird response I received when I clicked submit. So, I threw together a new one and submitted it, and there was my first post along with my second one. Not real sure which one I like better, maybe people will take different things from each! And it actually just happened again so forgive me if this goes up twice too.
@ Ben: The tension is not Bible v. not Bible based teaching or Christian education v. non Christian education…but action versus non action. People would be living the Bible more not less. This is interesting.
Does anyone else notice that the majority of posts defending preaching as usual seem to have come from pastors?
Maybe I am just cynical but I find it hard to give much heft to people whose income depends on the status quo staying the way it is defendin the status quo. This makes me think maybe they are right and it isn’t preaching that is the problem. Maybe it is all of our preachers.
Perhaps that was mean. I actually like a good sermon, and understand all the study that goes into one. These comments just seem defensive to me and that makes me think the poster’s may not be distant enough to really give these ideas a fair consideration.
Being defensive for what one knows to be true is not a bad thing, but a good thing. Being defensive over a mere opinion is another matter all together. Oh and by the way, when considering the value of preaching, scripture, ministry, et al, is it not prudent, wise, discerning and ultimately intelligent to seek the advice, insight and understanding of those who have studied, continue to study and will study the ministry? If you are sick and want medical attention, you seek the insight and wisdom of a medical professional, not a philosophy teacher. Pastors are not perfect, but it makes sense that if you are to discuss a topic relating to ministry that you would be wise to seek the opinion/insight from one who is practically doing it and not disregard it because they are involved. It would be close-minded, unintelligent and downright ignorant for any of us to pass judgment on this issue without seriously considering those who possess theological degree’s and understanding. Pastors are not the enemy, but should be seen as our advocates for Christ.
If we have been hurt by the church or by a pastor, we should not cluster all pastors/churches in the same category as those who have hurt us.
Oh and by the way…I am not a pastor, but one who loves God’s creation and that includes pastors; who are a part of God’s creation. We are called to love….well, let’s stop bashing those who are giving their lives to the ministry and start loving them too.
John,
I am sorry that I was not sensitive and possiby rude in my comment. I respect pastors for thier hard work and dedication to advancing the kingdom of God.
That said, I have come at this point in my life to believe that having paid pastors set apart from the rest of the members of the church as somehow intrisically different is unhealthy for the growth of Gods kingdom. I believe we need a radical embrace of the idea that all Christians are called to be ministers and all Christians have an equal possibility of being used by God to minister. Pastors are not intrinsically different than any other Christian. Once we embrace this idea then we can in a healthy way have paid ministers who do not have other jobs who we pay to study Gods word and teach us. Not as someone set apart as different than the rest of us but as someone chosen from amoung us for a specific task.
Furthermore A pastor is NOT a doctor and I wish we could let that analogy go! And even if they were, even the best doctors can be wrong in thier diagnosis some times, particularly when they do not listen to their patients. A pastor is much more like a college professor, an expert in thier field, yes, but usually only in one field and for a well rounded education you need to take many classes from many different professors and even then you will often learn more from one month of real life experience than a whole semester of college classes.
[...] Donald Miller: Could your church survive if there were no sermons? [...]