I’ll echo the many leaders who have praised the grace under pressure Bill Hybels showed at The Global Leadership Summit at Willow Creek. As many of you know, Howard Schultz, CEO of Starbucks canceled his speaking appearance due to an online petition from the homosexual community threatening to boycott Starbucks should Schultz speak at the supposedly “anti-gay” church. Schultz decided to cancel, and the Summit let him out of his contract.
What was remarkable, then, is how well Bill handled the situation. I noticed a few things about his announcement that I’ll keep in my file the next time I’m forced to share bad news:
1. He explained the situation accurately, and without judgment for either Mr Schultz or the homosexual community.
2. He corrected the misunderstanding that led to the protest, while also acknowledging a difficult truth that led to the misunderstanding.
3. He showed Mr. Schultz grace and understood his position, even asking the audience for empathy for Mr. Schultz.
4. He invited the audience to “take action” by showing kindness to Starbucks and Mr. Schultz as a way of further dispelling the misunderstanding that led to the protest.
I thought he did a terrific job in a difficult situation. Here’s the clip:
[...] I thought he did a terrific job in a difficult situation. Here’s the clip: via donmilleris.com [...]
This kind of blew me away. Thank you for sharing. There’s got to be a better way to love people like Jesus did/does and here we have a hopeful example.
I agree, Don. His response sounded exactly what a man of God sounds like. Can you imagine what a better world this could be if all difficult situations and disagreements were handled this way?
this position is nothing new. He said clearly that marriage is between a man and a woman, and everyone else should practice abstinence.
Despite the fact that he says the doors of the church are open blah, blah – this position is still a rejection and judgement of homosexuals as people who deserve to have intimate, committed relationships too.
If I was a self-respecting gay person, I wouldn’t step foot inside this “christian” church or any other.
“…this position is still a rejection and judgment…”
“If I was a self-respecting gay person, I wouldn’t step foot…”
Aren’t you now being judgmental and aren’t you rejecting someone or a group of people because of his/their beliefs?
How is your position any different from the position you claim this church maintains?
You may have a point – I am judging all Christians here. But you have to admit that many of the loudest voices in the Christian world hold the position that homosexuality is sinful and should be fixed or cured. So as I try to empathize or stand in those gay shoes, whether it is a judgmental position or not, I simply wouldn’t subject myself to the environment of a Christian church, where there are probably many who believe homosexuality is sinful.
I, personally, don’t believe that homosexuality is a sin – and in fact there is a growing body of scientific evidence to show that same-sex attraction is simply a variation in humanity or if you like, part of the intelligent design?
I have a friend who is gay and is in a committed relationship. He and his partner have a love and commitment that is no different than my relationship with my husband. He is a wonderful witness to the “ordinariness” of his lifestyle.
And don’t forget, homosexuality was such an important transgression that Jesus himself said exactly nothing about it – not one word.
First, of course the church is going to stand on their beliefs Wallace. In the same way you have your beliefs, our objective should not be whether we agree or disagree, it should be intimacy. Relationship. However, I do understand your view of Christians or anyone trying to “fix” people. We were called to love and love does not control. But this does not mean Christians should compromise their own values for the sake of another as that is the very thing homosexuals are trying to fight against.
Secondly, sin is not the issue anymore. Gasp. I know possibly many would disagree but throughout the New Testament as well Old, God cared about the heart. Additionally, Jesus took care of sin on the cross. Paul even talked about Jesus killing our sin nature and now He lives in us. (Romans 6, Gal. 2:20) Jesus became our sin so we could become his righteousness. (2 Cor. 5:21)
Lastly, be careful of taking your experiences and that of the world and placing them on God. Jesus showed the Kingdom is very different by demonstrating many miracles, and signs and wonders.
Wallace,
While we Christians would agree that homosexuality is sinful — we instead would say that ‘sin’ is only something that separates us from God. To a Christian, homosexuality should not be ‘fixed’ or ‘cured’ — especially if someone is not interested in being cured. And the truth is that there are misguided or uninformed people on either side of the issue who would judge or criticize someone unfairly. Some churches wouldn’t be a safe place for a homosexual, and some pro-gay meetings wouldn’t be a safe place for a Christian.
In kindness, I want to make sure you know that there is not a growing body of scientific evidence that confirms same-sex attraction is part of the human design. In truth, there is not yet a single study that has confirmed homosexuality is an inborn trait — instead, in serious scientific communities, it is generally considered a learned behaviour. I am not placing any value on either side of the argument, but communicating the truth.
Lastly, the argument that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality is not feasible — He also didn’t mention beastiality, pedophilia or rape, but I would contend that these are also important ‘transgressions.’
Regards,
Fred
Fred,
You compare homosexuality with beastiality, pedophilis and rape? Those are all transgressions *against* another person (or animal) that has no choice or is unwilling.
If you are looking for “science” to prove something about sexuality or homosexuality, you may want to prepare yourself for all that science does not answer about God, spirituality and the Bible’s miracles.
Coming from a very large family (11 kids) with only ONE being homosexual, I find it impossible to believe that homosexual behavior is “learned.” That thought process couldn’t be further from any truth.
I do not agree with some of the comments that ALL Christians are anti-gay or even that all Christian churches believe homosexuality is a sin.
Over that past few year the Episcopal church, the ELCA Lutheran Church, and the Presbyterian church have all changed their stance on homosexuality. Most of these churches will ordain gay clergy, do not require abstinence from gay members, and will bless the unions of gay couples.
These may be just a few churches but they are making a step in the right direction and I am proud of them for that. But I also realize this does not erase the hurtful words from other churches.
@Wallace, gay people deserve everything they wish or believe, but some things are sins, and you cannot ask me not to call them like that.
Any serious church does not need people who confronted with their sins are not willing to repent and change.
Calin,
While I agree that people should repent of their sins when confronted with them, do you always do the same or does it sometimes take a little while to really truly repent? I know personally that it takes a little while in the cases of things that are so ingrained in me that I have trouble believing that it is a sin. Yes, in a perfect situation any person should repent immediately and press on towards living a Godly and holy life. The problem is, that if we do not allow any person who has sinned and not repented in our church/community, then our community would quite often be quite small (I believe). Yes, there absolutely has to be a breaking point where we say, look you really need to pray about this and repent, but our first reaction I don’t think should be to kick out any person (Christian or not) that does not immediately repent. If anything I think that is a challenge to the Christian who is mentoring them to work harder at the relationship and really spend more time in prayer and mentorship with that person.
Please explain how being gay is a sin. It hurts no-one. Isn’t the experience of interpersonal love and understanding one of the truest ways to feel a spiritual connection? It can no more be innately wrong, than heterosexual love. Both are love, and therefore positive and enlightening. I’m ashamed that the institution that taught me “unconditional love” is consumed with such petty argument. How is it anyone’s business who you share your life with?
How is it sin, you ask? It is rebellion against the word of God. It’s an affront to marriage, a spiritual union instituted by God to be the foundational societal unit in this world. Trudy, my wife’s ex-husband forsook his marriage vows and his young children to follow his homosexual impulses. That’s the powerful draw and deception of this sin. Many people were hurt and continue to deal with the emotional scars.
And that would be a shame, so sorry you feel that way. It would be our loss.
@Bob, what and why would be that a loss?
It would be a loss on several front’s. Wallace would deny him or herself the possibility of being exposed to people who actually love the way Jesus loved, if he were to find a church practicing that, they would deny us of an opportunity to learn from them, the issues they personally have faced. Christ loved us long before we ever had a change of heart or repented, how can we do any less. He loved us and pursued us while we were yet in sin. And loves us unconditionally to this day, period. So yes, there would be loss on both sides. Just my opinion as I read God’s word and experience his grace daily.
Sorry, but it is fundamental to Christian theology that the sin and the sinner are not the same thing. I understand that that is a hard thing for the world to believe as it is audacious and even many Christians who say that totally fail to live like that is true, but the reality still is that the Bible teaches that we are not to be defined by our flaws, our tendencies, our failures or even our success, but by our faith in a crucified and living God.
When you reject the idea that someone can love the sinner and still condemn the sin, you reject the idea that Christ can die because of sin, in order to save the sinner. So you can blah, blah and change the subject to what we “deserve” (as if we deserve anything but what the God who both created us and died for us despite ourselves has given us), but that doesn’t change the reality that godly men like Bill Hybels can very truly love homosexual people and tell them that homosexuality is wrong.
I hope this doesn’t come across as angry, but i can’t deny that i am tired of repeating this over and over to people who insist upon emotional appeals to what we “deserve” in ignorance and denial of those who truly do love the sinner and hate the sin. But again, yes, i understand it is hard to believe that audacious miracle of God, who is the only way and only reason that any of us can truly love and forgive and live that out that wild theological truth.
I find myself longing to have a conversation with you, Wallace. Find my phone number and email address on my website if you’re interested.
I loved this. I think it is a great example to follow. I know nothing about Bill Hybels or Willow Creek, but they both earned hugh marks for this one in my book. If we as individuals and collectively as Christians responded more like this we would have more friends and fewer enemies.
Kudos to Bill Hybels for not making Starbucks choose between the “Christian” clientele and the homosexual clientele. A less graceful leader would have made some veiled damning threats by telling us not to judge, but let God give Starbucks what it has coming. Or to use the same tactics and boycott Starbucks over it. Or used it as a springboard for opening up a Christian coffeehouse so we don’t have to associate with “them”. It was refreshing that Hybels resisted the urge to put Starbucks in the crosshairs. I think we all could take a lesson from this.
Yes! So true. I don’t know when I’ve seen a greater display of grace and love by a well-known Christian leader. It’s encouraging to know that many leaders of other congregations are also learning from Bill’s example. I believe this type of humility will draw people to seriously consider following Jesus.
Whew. Thank goodness. Glad he handled it so gracefully – otherwise, there would be headlines out right now about how Christians hate Starbucks. Or something like that.
My favorite part was when he said they were going to follow matthew 18 and seek to resolve the conflict with those that started the petition.
Was helpful to see these words in print on ChristianityToday too: http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctliveblog/archives/2011/08/bill_hybels_on.html
Thanks for the rundown, Mr Miller!
That was so good. It won’t heal every wound, but it brings us closer. I want to be like Bill Hybels when I grow up.
I guess I’m just not smart. So the Willow Creek position is you’re welcome to come to our church as long as you’re willing to “work through” your homosexuality? So either you take up a heterosexual lifestyle (via marriage of course). Or you conceal your sexual orientation via abstinence. In either of those options I don’t see any accommodation for any measure of acceptance of homosexuality. Isn’t this the very definition of anti-gay???
being anti-gay sex and anti-gay people are actually different things. i hope you can understand that.
people often confuse this issue when they flip between “gay” as a reference to a type of sex and “gay” as a reference to people of a particular sexual orientation.
You can’t possibly believe that expecting a human being to live a life of denial, repression, abject loneliness and self-hatred is equal to acceptance. You must understand why this is regarded as anti-gay. Anti-human, even.
And if i have powerful desires to [enter vice of choice] (only directly to my detriment, not counting other consequences at the moment), is it really too much for anyone to expect me to live the rest of my life denying myself that vice, repressing the urges to indulge in it , feeling lonely when i realize most people around me don’t share that struggle and hating the fallen part of me that has those urges?
To answer myself (of course), no. I don’t think that is too much to ask, so long as the asker loves me, supports me, comforts me when i struggle with the shame and guilt of failure, cheers me when i succeed, sits with me when i am lonely, and you know, actually cares.
There is nothing at all anti-human in encouraging and supporting people in denying their faults, weaknesses and all other corruption that has been birthed in the fall. What would be anti-human would be to pretend that this is how we were meant to be, that we are only the animals that we were born as and can do nothing to choose to live as God intended.
Scott-
This is classic “love the sinner, hate the sin.” A similar situation would be someone who is morally opposed to the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, but doesn’t actually hate the people fighting in the war. It’s about separating the person from his or her actions.
I guess I’m kinda over “love-the-sinner-hate-the-sin.” Why bother with hating anything? I’m not being flippant here…really. It says in Corinthians that God is not holding our sins against us any more. The message is “come and join us in the Kingdom of God.” Once we’re there, we’ll find ourselves with plenty to do as God gently works on *our* sin. We’re free to simply love.
Brilliant, Lori. Thank you for saying that. I’m working on being less and less concerned with other people’s “sins” and more focused on loving God and loving those around me. God is the only one who can change a person and he knows exactly what to do.
Paul spent a lot of time in Corinthians calling out that church for being unconcerned about obvious, ongoing sin in their midst. Sin hurts people; ignoring ongoing, willful sin is not loving!
Don’t hold sin against people, but do hold people against sin!!!
You’re inspiring me to read the letters to the Corinthians again. Thanks, friend.
I say hold yourself against sin. Let God handle other people. Do you really think He is incapable of doing that?
Scott, don’t we walk through all our sins and short comings?
I go to Willow, I have been in To Many dead churches, stuck and pompous churches and hypocritical churches. Willow gets it! Go on their web site and watch the services. I think you will come away with a different opinion.
One other thing Scott, If you were Bill Hybels how would you have addressed it? I would love to know, I’m always trying to learn new things.
Scott W
The thing is Scott that everyone is broken and separated and is asked to “work through” your self. That’s what becoming a Christian is all about. It’s not a gay thing or straight thing. It’s reconciliation towards God. There’s no concealment, there’s no judgement, there’s no measure of acceptance because we’re all on the same journey, just different struggles we’re all facing.
Not sure why this is such a sticking point? I guess because there has been such terrible modeling of it before but when a leader truly does show grace and honesty there shouldn’t be this much continued hostility?
Right on, Conner.
I’m always inspired by believers who strike the balance between grace and truth. I had a professor in seminary who worked under Bill Hybels for years – he speaks extremely well of him and, after this video, I can better understand why.
I do not understand why everyone thinks this is so amazing. It is capitulation to the world and an attempt to toy around with words. Why argue with homosexual activists on whether or not they are anti-gay? According to their definition of anti-gay, Willow Creek is certainly anti-gay. Hybels trying to convince them they are not anti-gay by altering the definition. Schultz’s decision was wise, since he knew that he could unambiguously support gay rights, and Christians would do nothing, while if he even appeared to not support it, gay activists most certainly would.
Also, a nice misuse of Matthew 18.
This is path. Attempting please those who will never ever be pleased until you abandon the truth.
Are you so omniscient that you know Hybels was “altering” his definition of anti-gay? Or could it be that his definition was always different than yours and you (and others) really were just not understanding it at all.
Why are you so sure this is “toying” with words and not just an honestly different point of view? Kinda arrogant of you…
Man it is impossible to express an opinion on a Christian blog without someone accusing you of arrogance! It is clear that Hybels and change.org have different definitions of anti-gay.
Sorry, i was out of line there.
@Steven, nice words, Attempting please those who will never ever be pleased until you abandon the truth.
And indeed a misuse of Matthew 18 as this section addresses to the people in the church.
The point is not to actually seek a method of reconciliation. The point is to pretend to so that when it doesn’t happen you can claim you were the one who was open to reconciliation but the other side was not.
I agree
Cannot tell if you are really complimenting my words or sarcastically pointing out my typo. Sorry I was writing on my phone.
Steve, it looks like that might’ve been sarcasm. Sorry about that. It’s our policy not to let rude comments and insults about typos through. Just to let everyone know, typos, misspellings and grammatical errors are a fact of life, even for the best writers. Making fun of that stuff is ridiculous.
Wow thanks for this. Appreciate it.
Really? Because what I heard was “We’re not anti-gay, we even have *welcome mats* out that invite everyone to come out and hear us tell them that its God’s will that all gay people live as perpetual virgins.”
Bill Hybels behaved better than most pastors would given the circumstances. Phenomenally better. And I do give him a ton of credit for that. But it’s disingenuous if not insulting to claim you “welcome” a group of people while simultaneously claiming the very thing that makes them a group to start with is a problem that needs fixing.
So we shouldn’t welcome gambling addicts unless we’re willing to approve of their gambling or drunks unless we approve of their drinking? Do you see the problem here?
If you believe the act of homosexual sex is wrong and unhealthy, are you supposed to avoid people who enjoy that? That would be sin itself, as it is not loving. Or are you supposed to welcome fellowship and interaction with them but never ever hint that you think acting on homosexual urges is wrong? That would be mere tolerance, leaving them in ignorance of what you believe is true. Again, that is not loving them and therefore sin. Or are you supposed to welcome fellowship with them and find ways to clearly and kindly make sure they know you believe homosexuality is not the way things are meant to be, and patiently love them and care about them even if they never succeed (or never even want to succeed) in giving up the homosexual lifestyle? Personally, i think that last option is the only loving one.
Of course, if you don’t believe there’s anything wrong with homosexuality, then you don’t have to worry about those three options. All you need to do is learn to understand the point of view of those who do believe it is a problem and stop accusing them of being disingenous when you really don’t understand their point of view at all. Got it?
Indeed, *if* you think there is something wrong about two same-sexed consenting adults in a loving relationship, you can think that all you want, choose not to associate with them, and even join organizations that specifically exclude them.
But if you choose to exclude them, you aren’t permitted to redefine your exclusion as being welcoming.
You cannot, in good faith, say “we welcome African-Americans as long as they sit in the balcony” or “we welcome Hispanic individuals as long as they bring their green card” and expect to be seen as welcoming to minorities. Saying “we welcome gay people as long as they don’t act gay” is no different.
But that’s not what they said. They didn’t say people who act gay aren’t welcome. They said everyone is welcome, but we are going to call everyone who comes to live in light of God’s truth and give up sinful habits.
Is that really so hard to understand?
I understand the decision to judge gay people, and again they have the right to do that if they so choose.
What I don’t understand is how they think they can judge gay people and still claim with a straight face that they’re welcoming them.
I suppose I could “welcome” you into my home by saying “welcome” when you enter the door, and then spend the whole time talking about everything I don’t like about you. But I don’t understand why anyone would actually consider that behaving in a welcoming manner. Or expect to get a pass on their duplicity if they’re doing it in bad faith.
Wow, a bubna — well said.
I, for one, would love it if Christians more often allowed people to live in ignorance of what they believe is true. “Mere tolerance” is underrated.
Sorry,as I read scripture Christ only Judged the religious establishment of the day not those in sin. He continued to love and pursue those in sin as long as he was on this earth. If a person is not a person of faith I cant imagine any reason to deny them welcome and access to a church unless he is destructive and a danger to the people attending there. A hard subject sure, but Jesus always put the ball in their court, he never drove them away. Thus his admonition to pray for our enemies and those who spitefully use us. It really was all about love.
Very well said, and a much needed reminder for me. Thank you.
@A Bubna, I agree with you that the 3rd option is the right thing. What also must be clarified is that the church cannot be selective with whom is visiting that church, everyone is welcome as a visitor, but when it comes to become a true member of the church through baptism the things are different.
Yeah, I don’t really get the whole “we welome gays as long as they don’t act gay” thing.
It’s a semantic band-aid. You get to make “those people” uncomfortable until they leave and still turn around and say “our hands are clean. We were welcoming, but they’re just too touchy to handle the truth.”
This is hard to push back on, but I’m going to try. *I* feel uncomfortable in the face of God’s desire to redeem me. I could choose to leave. I choose (so far!) to stay and let him lovingly work with me. Now, if I found myself *hated* because of the things in me that need redemption, I would definitely leave. I haven’t been in the position of a gay person at church, but some of my dearest friends have, and their experience is not so different from mine. The biggest difference(sadly!!) is not being able to be as open about who they are as I can — only because some INDIVIDUALS wouldn’t be able to handle it. Not the church or the community as a whole — just some people.
I totally agree, Lori. And that’s well said!
Jesus practically made a point out of saying things that challenged people’s life and worldview and made them very uncomfortable. He didn’t overlook sin even as he loved hanging out with sinners. He told them to change, but welcomed them regardless. It was those pretending to be holy and have it all together that He couldn’t stand and drove away. Too often we let those same pretenders in our churches drive away those Christ is calling to come.
Jesus does not want gay people to be comfortable with their gay sex life. He wants them to be comfortable with Himself and His people.
J.T., i’m sorry you think loving the sinner and hating the sin is just some “semantic band-aid” or unsubtle plot to drive away unwanted people. I know people use it that way sometimes, but that is NOT what it is meant to be. Jesus did it very truly, so can (and should) we!
> a bubna says:
> “…Jesus does not want gay
> people to be comfortable
> with their gay sex life…”
Are you really appointing yourself spokesman for Jesus? Funny, I have read the bible and I can’t find anywhere that Jesus said that.
Are you a person of integrity? Are you going to stand by that statement?
@a bubna: I prefer to phrase it as “Love people, hate sin,” but that’s not exactly what I was railing against.
I’m not gay myself, but I have very close friends who are and I see how difficult their lives are. It’s not some wonderful thing that’s tempting to everyone. I myself have no desire to be gay, which is why I’m straight. That’s why I lean very heavily into the theory that gay people are born, not made.
Given that, I don’t know why some people are born gay and some straight, but I accept it. And I encourage everyone to express their sexuality in positive and responsible ways, regardless of orientation. I, too, hate manipulative, abusive, and irresponsible sexual behavior, even as work on hating less things.
But my friends aren’t doing that, or I wouldn’t have them as friends. They just happen to love someone who has the same biological gender as themselves.
Lots of churches exclude them because of that, which is hurtful to me but completely within their rights to do so. A private organization can have any code of conduct it wants for its members.
What I rail against is the claim that an organization can claim that the way my friends are made is wrong/bad/sinful, or that solely because of how they’re made they should live a monastic lifestyle out of obligation, and still claim to be “welcoming” them.
You just can’t do it any better than that. AWESOME!
Still, this leaves me with a bitter state after Mr. Schultz decided to withdraw. What kind of leader is him? He said he will come and after that figured it out he has to choose between huge public opinion and a “small” bunch of Christian who anyway are set to forgive him.
He is the leader first and foremost in charge of running a corporation, and that is where his responsibility lays. He had to choose between speaking at a leadership conference representing himself, or risking financial harm to his company and and employees.
Sorry, but it seems a little self-righteous to say a “real” leader would risk financial harm to those underneath him in order to speak at a conference on leadership. What kind of leader does that?
It’s a crappy choice to have to make as it’s really a no win situation. But many business choices thrust upon leaders are lose-lose. The fact is there could have been a boycott, and in places like here in Seattle where 14% of the population is gay (and many straights are very hostile to anything that might in any way be perceived as anti-gay), that sort of self-righteous attitude that he should have spoken anyways would have had real world financial consequences that could have adversely affected his employees.
Grace and class at it’s finest.
Saw this on Michael Hyatt’s blog the other day and was impressed then, too. Good eye for beautiful leadership, Don.
Not sure I’d pat Bill on the back just yet. I find it worth noting that in front of his conservative Christian audience he had no problem ” speaking the truth”. They applauded Willows position on sex (no pun intended). Yet when Willow ended their relationship with Exodus International, which signalled they were moving away from a hard line on issues of “turning gays straight” , they did it under the table. Selective truth telling doesn’t impress me much.
Lots of folks have chosen to end their relationship with Exodus International without making a big deal out of it.
Actually, Lori, They did so in July and somehow CT reported the story. It wasn’t a quiet separation. And Starbucks has its own challenges– a lawsuit over a store manager berating a gay employee before firing him.
Both organizations have room to grow in their attempts to respect homosexuals (and in Willow’s case as it conforms to scripture). I wish the two organizations would have found a way do this growing together.
And I did think Bill’s handling of this was classy although somewhat incomplete (I do wonder if the break from Exodus was part of an attempt to keep Schultz in the fold).
What a classy response to a difficult situation. How admirable!
Donald I’m a Willow member and saw you when you spoke there last year. Thank you for bringing this to your readers attention!
My question to everyone who did not like how Bill Hybels handled it – How would you address the 7400 people who came to see Mr Shultz speak, not to mention the thousands who were in satellite sites to see him speak?
Or better yet some of you sound like you know all – how do you think Jesus would have told the crowd at Willow for the Leadership conference that their marquee speaker backed out because 717 people signed a petition?
I think Pastor Hybel is on to something if he truly wants to engage the gay community. Jesus definitely would. First of all I have a gay daughter whom I love deeply. Our family struggled for several years with this family dynamic, but through God’s grace we are all ok and love each other very much. It seems that when she came out of the closet we actually went in. My husband and I are both christians and sadly our daughter seems to be moving further away from the church, due to a precieved condemning, I am cleaner than you attitude. I don’t believe that she chose her sexual orientation. She would not put herself or us through this transition and turmoil. Through her identity crisis she also suffered from bulimia. Once she embraced who she was she finally had the peace to care for, and love others. Come lets reason together and discern what is right.
Well, I cannot cast the first stone nor can I attempt to take the speck out of her eye with such a huge plank in my own. It’s a work in progress. So here in lies the truth, we are all flawed human beings that need Christ, he moulds us, not man, life is a learning phase for Heaven, so what ever you do unto the least of these you do unto me. It’s about a relationship with Christ and His creation(people). Our daughter was knit in my womb just like the rest of God’s creations was born, all our days planned. I think Pastor Hybel appeared to handled himself in a godly manner, but only he and God knows his heart and whether his motives were true or not. You have to understand peoples situations because until you see the face of a people or their plight you do not have a sincere voice. Matthew 7:12 tells us that the most important thing to take from the mosaic law( ten commandants) and the teaching of the prophets is to treat others how you would want to be treated, it’s the foundation of the Church, or at least should be. So ask yourself, how would you like to be treated. I’ll pray for understanding, for both protesters and the church if they do meet. I,ll leave you with a quote by Frederick Buechner that I read in my devotional book. ” Compassion is sometimes the fatal capacity for feeling what it is like to live inside somebody else’s skin. It is the knowledge that there can never really be any peace and joy for me until there is peace and joy finally for you too. So I pray that you all show compassion. I believe that God in the present, is still writing/speaking. Why else would Christ leave us with the holy spirit?
Joy, I want to give you a hug. I’m a mid-20s gay man, and I have parents that I continually pray have a move of compassion that you wrote about. Not that they need to change their beliefs and convictions at all, just to exercise that greatest commandment that Jesus spoke of. I think when we do that everything else falls into perspective, and we’re suddenly not so concerned with making sure everyone else’s life and walk with Christ conforms to what we feel it ought to.
As for your comment in response to the video, I think you were spot on – how can any of us know the man’s heart? We can’t. We can think we know, but we could be very wrong. As a gay man, I won’t pretend that a big part of me feels like rolling my eyes and saying, “Yep, it’s the same old sure, we love you until it becomes clear that you’re not going to do what we want, and then we’ve got issues buddy!” But… I don’t know that! And I think the Spirit of the Living God is calling me to something better than that reaction.
I realize that the issue of GLTB people and the Church is a touchy one, and there’s a lot of hurt and pain and bigotry on both sides of the aisle. But the Living God is, I think, calling us to something better. Jesus prayed for His church to be unified. Not uniform, but unified. If I’m to be part of a unified church, then that has got to start with my heart. What does that look like as a young, gay Christian? Forgiving brothers and sisters even when they condemn or insult me and the community of people that I ALSO belong to – “the gays.” And then to keep reaching out my hand and saying, “Come now, and let us reason together. Our Dad wants us to work this out; our fight is breaking His heart. And I’m sick of it, aren’t you?”
It doesn’t mean all our arguments and feelings vanish, but it means that both sides will start to see their hearts moving to resemble that of our dear sister, Joy.
Joy, may the grace and peace of Christ be with your family as you continue to walk this out.
May the grace and peace of Christ be with us all.
Thank-you Emeth,
Have patience with your parents. I am a firm believer that time is a wonderful healer and we need to feel what we feel. Our daughter wanted us to just open our arms to her life to fast and she will openly admit that today, but we also understand more today where she was coming from. That desperate need for acceptance and love from the people who meant the most to her. Our lives have changed, our world has changed, and at times we are not even sure where we fit in anymore, but I do know that through all of this my husband, son and i are better people. We see our beautiful daughter/sister through different eyes, and while our hopes and dreams are not what they once was for her we still at the end of the day are a family, and a very close family.
A good book that has help us along the way.. Pack Up Your Gloomees in a Great Big Box, then Sit on the Lid and Laugh by Barbara Johnson. You and your parents will find alot of helpful ways on how others have dealt with their gay child coming out.
Don’t give up hope. Find people that will come along side of you that can help you through this difficult time and the same for your parents as well . The worse thing anytone can do is have nothig to do with their child in hopes that they will change. If we had done that I can tell our daughter would not be here today and how could we have gone on. It so often happens and it saddens me.
There’s no easy roads only love, and the grace and peace of Christ.
God Bless you. I will be praying for you and your family.
Joy and Emeth, would you be willing to correspond with me by email on this subject? I don’t want to take up space on Don’s blog and you guys seem really grounded on this subject. If that would be okay with you (and it’s totally okay if you’d rather not), you can find my email at my website, linked at my name.
Beautiful response, Joy! I, too, believe that people do not choose their sexual orientation. God is taking each one of us on an individual journey and no one can tell us how to walk it except him. Love is the key.
“Not choosing” is a tough one to understand, too. For better or worse, I’m living in something I really think is very similar. I am extremely obese.
I can’t say that I chose to be obese, or even chose the behavior that brought me here. I’m pretty sure there’s a “fat gene,” and there are certainly plenty of medical studies that would say that I am this way because of genetics.
But I still have a choice. I can wreestle with this distortion in my body, learn to live in ways that most people don’t have to (drinking water and lemon when my friends are eating pizza or ice cream because my body reacts differently to those foods than theirs do), etc.
I don’t expect to be hated for my condition, but it has never been helpful for people to say “we accept you just the way you are” and give me no real understanding or help, the way deep, loving friendship does.
I often draw the comparison this way: it would be ridiculous for you to hate me for being fat, and it’s not the most important thing about me…but I’m not about to join a “Fat Acceptance Society” (and I’ve been invited!), and I can’t imagine marching in a “fat pride parade.”
There’s more…but this is already a really long comment!
My sister-in-law wrestles with this also Lori and she is one of the most loving, caring, compassionate, people I know. She has been at our daughter’s side right from the beginning because she knows what it is like to hurt, to feel unloved and like an outcast.
This is so much more I could say on your comment , but I don’t want this blog to be about debating. It is a place where we can come to be free to share our hearts and I want to keep it that way and respect Mr. Miller’s space.
Much love!
Lori, you are a gem! And your point is so right on. We are all tainted in many ways by the fall from the moment of conception. Our bodies and hearts are not what they are meant to be!
Telling people that they have to accept the way someone was born as being natural or even good just because they were born that way is a major deviation from scripture and tradition. Likewise, Christians who insist that Christ will “cure” homosexual urges if you really surrender to Him are totally ignoring the truth that God often chooses to leave us flawed here so that His power and glory might shine through us. Paul certainly didn’t get the “thorn in his flesh” removed for that reason and you can’t exactly accuse him of not surrendering to God.
Anyway, i’m getting carried away and don’t just want to rip on people who insist God will cure all our problems. My point was to agree and emphasize with you that being born a certain way does not make it something that we have to affirm and accept. Even if it is something we can never change and God chooses to leave us to deal with, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t still called to resist the warps and twists that are born and bred into us in this fallen world.
I’m surprised, again, that kind and loving Christians draw lines in the sand and lose their charity when sexuality is at issue. I recall Saint Paul decrying homosexuality, not Christ. Both decried excessive wealth and lack of charity. We exhibit great tolerance for greed, gluttony, lies and hypocrisy. What is it about sex that causes us to behave so badly?
The Victorian Era?
“Bad news” is every where, because we’re sorounded by sins, that’s why we need to spread the good news to every one.To balanced every thing we proclaim to the public.
I have to respect him for stating clearly what his church’s position on homosexuality is. Those who love the same sex can clearly decide whether or not that is the church for them, based on his statement. I certainly can’t fault him for that.
Nicole, of all the posts here on both sides, I think you are getting to the real heart of it. It seems to come down to the question of fellowship. Are the leaders and most attendees of Willow Creek willing to remain in “fellowship” with gay people? The answer seems to be yes! (Where other churches have chosen to break the bond of fellowship). Likewise, gay people have to ask themselves if this issue, and Willow Creek’s interpretation of Scripture on the issue of same-sex relationships, will be THE issue that makes them uncomfortable with being there. It’s highly possible that a gay couple (or gay individuals) could attend Willow Creek and simply disagree with the church on that issue. That decision would be up to the couple or the single individuals. It’s not unlike other points of disagreement — such as speaking in tongues, women pastors, alcohol consumption, etc. If a person has to agree with every single issue espoused by a church before they attend, they may be looking for quite a while.
Way to go, Bill Hybels! No matter what we think about Willow Creek’s position, much can be learned from watching the way in which he handled this situation.
It seems to be clear that the reason this piece of news was posted is so we can learn how to handle difficult situations–not to insinuate more debate over the conflict of homosexuality within the Church.
I was impressed by the video and recognize that a leader with this many people behind him, really has his stuff together–and has to, in order to set an example for those he might have influence with. He had a responsibility to carry himself well–and he did just that.
I desperately want to applaud this presentation because I can tell this is a man with his heart in the right place and likely a church doing what it sees as the best possible thing by making sure homosexuals feel welcome in the church. However, making them feel welcome in your church and not persecuting them within those walls is the very minimum a church can do.
I don’t know Willow as a church outside of this video so I can’t speak in detail about their stance but unless the church as a whole is pushing for gay marriage being legalized (which I doubt based on his description of what the churches stance is on the matter) then they are still anti-gay (within the context of the petition) because it boils down to a religious belief vs personal rights issue.
However, if they are actively pursuing equal rights for gay couples in the secular political arena while encouraging relationships within the walls of their church body that conform to their personal beliefs then I applaud them!
I respect his position, but I also respect the position of the 717 people who signed the petition and Mr. Shultz. I, personally, agree with the 717 people and Mr. Schulz. To say that you do not discriminate, but then tell homosexual people that they shouldn’t have sex, seems like a farce. Just because you let people in the door, doesn’t mean your teachings are not discriminatory. Perhaps he doesn’t understand what discrimination is? He certainly has the right to discriminate if he wishes, but others have the right to complain about it. And I respect Mr. Shulz for taking a stand and being a leader on this issue.
Joe, is it wrong to tell someone there wrong when it goes against the Bible? Jesus loved people and forgave them, but He also said “go and sin no more”.
The problem these days is no one can take a stand on a subject anymore. If they do others get mad and down on these people. The Bible is still the standard to live by. I fail at it many times a day, but it is still the stable force in my life.
Scott
If that seems like a farce to you, then may i politely suggest that you aren’t trying very hard to understand their position and beliefs? I assure you, it is no farce.
It seems that most of these discussions have avoided the question…how do we see authority of the biblical texts that deal with these issues? How are Paul’s words interpreted? How are the laws of Leviticus read? Are they cultural or still relevent? What did Jesus intend for relationships? How are we made anatomically to complement each other?
It’s a good question, malin. I’m an old dog and I’ve lived a long time. The longer I live the more I see how scripture ends up culturally interpreted. When I was young divorce and remarriage, which the Biblical text seems to condemn, were deemed unacceptable. Now they’ve become quite mainstream in our churches. It’s also amazing how many different flavors of Christian belief and practice there are globally.
Folks if you love God deeply with all of your heart, the holy spirit can and do grant you the peace and grace to love beyond your short comings.I am sure we can all agree with that? Once you have come to that place in your life then you are free to love your neighbour as yourself. How do you love yourself if you can’t be who you were created to be?I am not sure, I do struggle with that question. Having gone through this family crisis dealing with my gay child was just as much about changing my own heart, as it was my daughter’s life style. It made me more sensitive to the troubles and lives of others thus allowing Christ to use me in a compassionate and loving way.Of course we have to obey God’s word, but the living word meets and directs people to amazing scriptures for whatever place you find yourself at in life. He is the one that fixes where need be.2 Cor. 12:10 “Now I take limitations in stride, and with good cheer, these limitations that cut me down to size; abuse, accidents, opposition, bad breaks. I just let Christ take over! And so the weaker I get, the stronger I become.
We all have a torn in the flesh. It teaches us hidden things about our own hearts. It appears that at times we spend so much time debating the gay issue while the world around us is falling apart due to; greed, division(Church and State), homelessness, plight of the poor, anger, gossip, the God of materialism and so on…. We are the peace keepers and true love is unconditional, Let the Holy Spirit work the rest out. To whom much is given much is expected. Pastor Hybel’s handled himself well on touchy issue. He stayed true to his core beliefs. All of us need to prayfully move forward in a loving way careful not to become self-righteous,understanding that people are at different stages of their Christ walk. Also non believers are watching to see if our love is real. Mr. Shultz’s made a calculate business decision to step back from speaking at the summit and we need to respect that.
I still don’t think there was a “misunderstanding” as you put it. Or, perhaps there was, but not in the way Bill or yourself thinks there was. When the people who petitioned signed it they did not mean that Bill or the church was literally against gay people…that they would not welcome them. What they meant was that the churches stance, that homosexuality is a sin that may be correctable and, if not, celibacy should be sought is, in the eyes of the petitioners, an anti-LGBT stance.
I think Bill still did a decent job given the situation. But to say he had an “accurate understanding” as you said above is a little misleading. He didn’t seem to understand that the petitioning group calls into question the whole idea of homosexuality as a sin and the theology that may or may not support it.
Well said! I think Hybels tried to be as kind as he could, but he really doesn’t seem to understand the issues. He turned it around to say that his church isn’t anti-gay people, but the real issue is of course that his church IS anti-gay, since they take a clear outspoken stance against being gay. I doubt he’s going to reach any new understanding from his proposed conversation with the organizers of the petition. A good read would be Andrew Marin’s Love is an Orientation.
[...] the Church is not anti-anyone. I heard Bill Hybels talk about this in a video that you can watch here. Donald Miller quoted him in his blog about how to share bad news. And I agree with Miller. [...]
The “love the sinner, hate the sin” mantra from our Church just makes no sense to most gay people. Most of them aren’t choosing destructive, rebellious behavior, they just for whatever reason have a same-sex attraction. Continually telling them that they are living a sinful lifestyle is just frustrating and maddening to people who are often good-hearted folk. Yes, of course, we are all depraved, but when someone is gay it’s not like they are choosing it just to make God angry. I really wonder how many Christian know any gay people, since we tend to isolate ourselves in Christian culture.
So I do think Hybels was trying his best to be kind, but still misses the big points. A really helpful book on this topic is: Love is an Orientation by Andrew Marin. I do think taking a hard look at the Scriptures within their cultural context is important (as one person commented already). We also need to find a way to not make this the main issue that gay people need to work on to know God. We aren’t welcoming them into the church by making such a big deal out of this issue.
http://johnshore.com/tag/gay-christians/
Everyone debating this issue should check out the articles on this page.
[...] http://donmilleris.com/2011/08/16/how-to-share-bad-news/ by Don at Donald Miller's Blog [...]
[...] How to Share Bad News Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. Everyday life ← Pop Pop’s Mountain [...]
Excellent to hear of such leadership and follow-through of a difficult but completely relevant situation to just about everyone in leadership. Thank you for posting.
I was just listening to the video biography of “Derek Prince – The Man Behind The Ministry (1915 – 2003)” on YouTube. You and many of your readers might find his life and example of leadership intriguing and inspiring. I listened to this philosopher-turned-Bible-teacher for many years and still look to his example and books for clear guidance. We live in truly challenging times where our faith needs to be solid so that, like Mr. Hybels, we can acknowledge conflicts and still extend the hand of friendship with respect and love. This, easy to type but requiring a discipline I hope to see more of in our communities. Blessings.
What a bunch of garbage. We’re not anti-gay, but all others outside of the context of a married man and woman should practice abstinence. Just that little wrench of a detail. So, you know, be gay all you want, just don’t be GAY gay. Because Biblical standards are so clear on this and a solid representation of proper morality and ethics and across the board. I mean, even Jesus said… oh wait.
-and
Fully agree, Don. An excellent example set by Bill.
I read with interest the issue concerning Howard Schultz and Bill Hybels. I think both men did what they thought was right, and I admire them both for their openness about their positions.
I do want to speak about the issue of how the church responds to the issue of gays. It’s a frightening thing for most people I know – truly discomforting and unsettling. The vast majority of the people I know in the church simply do not want to talk about. Some do, but the vast majority of _them_ who can talk about it want to use the occasion to say “gay people are outside the pale of acceptable and comfortable human behavior.” (There is a tiny fraction who are OK with talking about it & who are not weirded out, but they are usually shouted down by the Amen Corner.)
And I want to speak as someone who has done it your way for my entire life as a conscious person, and who will probably do it your way until the end of my life.
Because what you are saying to gay people when you say “we love the sinner but hate the sin” is “we hate the sin and the sinner, but we aren’t comfortable saying ‘hate’ so we’ll say something completely unintelligible hoping you’ll still like us.”
I’m not really fooled by it. What you are saying to me is “you are unacceptable and truly and deeply unlovable.” You tell me to come to Jesus who loves the sinner, and then you tell me that my particular issues are so deeply transgressive that there is nothing for me to do but wait it out and hide.
I do it your way – the hiding and the denial – because I love me some Jesus. I love the idea of a savior who can wash away my sins and give me strength to live each day a good man. I love the idea of hope, and I love the idea of a God who is both just and merciful.
But I also don’t understand why this good Jesus made me the way I am, and why the core of my identity is bad and wrong and unacceptable.
I don’t understand why your good Jesus, friend of sinners, has followers who spout off about “love” and “acceptance” and “forgiveness” when they really mean “conform to our set of behaviors.”
You probably think the whole idea of same-sex attraction is sinful, and that it’s simply something you can reverse or pray away or not indulge in.
I can tell you this as someone who has been going through the hell of being a closeted gay Christian – married, with kids, and a successful leader in the church – that it is not something you can reverse or pray away. You can make choices about your behavior, and thanks be to God, I guess, for your sakes, that I have never crossed that line for physical relationship. I’ve never knowingly transgressed or even gotten close to the line. So you are all safe. Because I love God and I respect his people, I choose – every day – to stay limited and alone, so that _you_ aren’t provoked into anger and hatred.
You all make it very clear to me how I am supposed to be and act. You all make it very clear in your private conversations with me (because – ha ha! – you think I’m straight!) how much you despise gays, and how much you make fun of them. But while you make fun of them, which is, of course, humor, you hate them. Then you go out in public and say those awful words (which a just God would repeat at the judgment seat, but he won’t because his mercy triumphs over justice, and he will forgive you just as he forgives me) about how you “love the sinner and hate the sin.”
(Can I also say as an aside that I have heard the most deeply racist things in my life from hetero white Christian males? You all really have a problem with “the other.” And with the same mouth that says “I love Jesus” you have the most appalling vocabulary. You might wonder some times why there are no blacks or latinos in your churches. I have some clues I can tell you, but it boils down to the fact that blacks and latinos are not fools and can read you like you’re an open book. “Come to Jesus and Be Like Us.”)
Anyway, you say you love the sinner and hate the sin, but really, you don’t. You hate the sin – we get that – and you hate the sinner, too. It’s the unacceptable sin. (And we get _that_ as well, that you hate the sinner. Your faces contort when you describe Teh Gays. Not at all attractive. Not a face of love.)
You try to find ways to shoehorn your hatred around the requirements of love, and you can’t make it fit. So you tell gays – you tell _me_ – to just stop.
It doesn’t work that way. The only thing I can do is watch you straight people and mimic your behavior. I’m nearly a perfect chameleon.
And because I want you to be comfortable and not hate me explicitly (even though you hate me as a class), I act normal and heterosexual. I have it down pretty good.
Because of your requirements for me to be accepted in your society and your church, I have avoided every single male friendship my entire life. Because, you see, I don’t want them to be hurt by me, by knowing a _gay_ man, and I certainly don’t want to be tempted beyond my own control. So, I live in silence. (Which, if you think about it, exactly mimics the normal heterosexual male who has no deep friends! Unintended humor! Or maybe you’re all closeted gays, too. Even more humor.)
And of course, since I am married and deeply, deeply closeted, I respect my wife and do not want to destabilize her, so I have no female friends, either. My hetero friends talk quite often about women in the safety of male companionship, but I don’t, because I’m not that interested, and don’t want to lie. Well, explicitly. You can, of course, accuse me of lying by not speaking out. Usually people like you spend most of your time looking for my sins anyway, but I don’t speak these things because it just hurts to much to have you talk even more judgmentally about people like me.
Which means I have no friends. Well, I have some, but they are completely superficial. I don’t know if you know what that means, because maybe you, too, have no deep friends. Maybe you have no one to whom you can tell everything – _everything_ – and be safe. I wish I had that my whole life, but it’s excluded, because I follow your rules. I don’t say these things to anyone, and everyone stays happy.
Now, the problem is that every so often I will meet someone – a guy, of course – and find I’m attracted to him. Say what you will, it just happens. I have to go through hell during this time because I have found that I must not look or touch or let myself feel anything until the situation changes. I do not go out looking. I usually don’t even look, if you must know. I know how to play the game of hiding. But every so often there is a male who seems a bit sensitive or funny or loving, maybe not so shallow, and we form a slightly more honest relationship. I realize that I am heading into a trap, a temptation to go over the line, so I limit myself and deliberately sabotage the relationship if it gets too uncomfortable. Because, I’m thinking of _you_, how you hate this, and how much you’ll hate me. I also think of the other guy, how much it would hurt him & his masculinity, and of course that’s a big concern, too. Because if I did really love him with the “agape” love of God, I would not pursue this attraction or affection in any way. And I choose to be good and loving.
So I end up choosing to reduce the level of intimacy. I let the relationship cool. I return messages with longer and longer wait times. I don’t pick up the phone or call back until days later. I find myself getting too busy to hang out. And gradually they find something else to do.
So you’re safe. You can continue to hate gays. You can continue to allow nearly every other sin in your church and at your pulpit – lies and pomposity and self-righteousness, gossip and slander and judgmentalism – but thank God you are OK on this one sin. Thank God you’ve got it clear that those gays are hated, and properly so.
Me? I’m sticking around church because I love me some Jesus. I don’t understand why he did this to me – why he made me with a heart that is attracted to the same sex. I have prayed and cried and fasted. I have gone to conventions and seminars. I’ve had endless numbers of people telling me how I should just “stop” being that way. Because it’s only a choice.
I can tell you, and for what it’s worth, if I could pick one thing about me to be removed from my psyche no matter the cost to my own soul, it would be to get rid of this. I would do nearly anything to be heterosexual, normal, accepted. And in saying that, the sad truth is that there is _nothing_ I can do about it. Not a thing. I will always have those sudden moments when some man catches my eye and I experience a wave of some emotion that I know is damnable. And I turn away, take a breath, and continue in my shell. Because I’m _good_ and I follow Jesus. And the price of being a good man in the church is to simply be a hollow shell.
So in all honesty I’ll just say I hope you are happy with that situation in your life, that you keep those gay people away from you and away from Jesus. Because as long as you don’t have to think difficult thoughts about sexuality and gender and orientation, as long as you have someone telling you what to believe and how to think and even how to love, you will be safe and protected.
And you will find yourself and your church more and more marginalized and sidelined by a world that has decided that being gay isn’t just not-wrong. It’s something entirely normal and acceptable.
You and the church are becoming less and less important to the world. You don’t speak for social justice. You don’t speak for the poor. You don’t march against terrible injustices at home or abroad. You instead march against gay people. You march against poor people. You sit in your clean buildings with clean clothes and wonder why no one wants to come to your clean, sterile boxes.
Well, I’ll be in that box, too. Hiding in plain sight. Doing what I need to do to get through the remaining years of my life. Being dutiful to my wife and a leader to my kids and grandkids. I will be buried, perhaps, with a nice stone. And nothing about who I really am will ever be known by anyone.
That’s the world you created for me with your theology and your church and even your God.
I’m not so sure about my entrance into the kingdom. I haven’t done a lot with the talents I was given. I’ve just tried to make sure that I acted right and made everyone happy, because I wanted so badly to be loved, and I had to settle for not being hated.
Hey, buddy. Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts. They are some of the most powerful I’ve read in a long time. My heart hurts for you.
I’d like to share a few things with you, just things God has taught me in my life. None of these are advice or criticism. Just elements of my story that your story made me feel like sharing.
First off, God showed me that the worst of my sins was self-hatred. That by accepting and loving every bit of myself and welcoming Him into every corner I considered too dark or too awful I would find my way into health and closer relationship with Him.
Second, He showed the importance of self-care. I realized the depth of my own co-dependence. The needs of others are endless and I constantly put them before my own needs. My first responsibility is to the care and nurture of myself. It’s easy for certain Christians to become unhealthily self-destructive. “I’m supposed to die to myself and be like Christ, right?” I would answer only if God explicitly tells you to die in that way.
Third, He showed me to start judging the outcomes of what I was doing based on the fruit that was produced. I look for the fruit of the Spirit in things: love, joy, peace, gentleness, meekness, kindness, self-control, patience. Are they being produced?
Fourth, He showed me that if I really wanted to love others I needed to tell the truth. I had a nasty habit of telling people what they wanted to hear so they would feel good. Now I try to do that. My relationships have become more real. I feel better. More peaceful.
Fifth, He showed me how much He loves and accepts me exactly as I am while letting me know that He is willing and able to give me new life. That life is almost never what I thought I wanted. Almost never. I’ve learned I don’t know what really needs fixing, but He does.
I could go on, but I don’t want to be excessive. I want you to know you’re loved. I want you to know you’re perfect as you are. God is the change agent. If something needs to go He’ll take care of it. He is our Redeemer.
I’m praying for you.
Peace.
John Smith, would you be willing to communicate with me via email? I find your story and history very compelling, and I think we have a lot that we could share that would be encouraging and edifying.
Teresa,
I appreciate your kind offer, but I can think of no way to communicate that will maintain my privacy. For the time being, I need to stay where I am. I’m OK with planning on having that conversation in the future, but it won’t be happening in the near future.
And Dave, I also appreciate your kindness. I’m not sure I understand what you are saying & how it applies to what is going with me, but I have read what you’ve written several times.
There really is no place to have this conversation, I guess, besides the awful anonymity of this blog.
I know that things are pretty good for me. I’m not living in a technologically backward society. I’m not a slave in 1800s America. I don’t live in terror that someone will kill me or abuse me or just run my life. I live comfortably & do not have to worry about my next meal. I’m better off than 99% of all humanity throughout history. So I understand the reaction that I’m just whining or I’m selfish or I’m self-centered. All I can say is, maybe the luxury of a full belly and a safe environment gives me a chance to think about who I am and what I feel; maybe the answer isn’t to fix who I am (because it’s impossible to do so) but to work harder and think less. That’s kind of how I’m doing it now.
Well growing up in a very strong christian home and going through christian school, hooking up was something that was always preached and taught against in my life..and even though I knew how wrong it was all it took was getting in a relationship with one wrong guy after high that made me spiral down hill…my virginity was taken at 18 and after that guy was done with me, I felt as if that was the only kind of guys I could attract was ones who wanted sex and that was just what I done…it was one guy after another, and even though I knew that sex was the only thing the guy was wanting I would continue to try to convince myself he really cared about me but after a couple weeks I would always find out differently..After ever hook up it would get easier yet I still felt so angry inside, dirty and used…it was like when was this cycle ever going to end…my mom would continually tell me I was going to end up pregnant or with something ajax couldn’t wash off but no I thought I was playin it safe..4 yrs down the road here I am and no I didn’t end up pregnant from all the hook ups but yes its true your sins will find you out!I did get a std from a guy I had ended up dating for about 9 months and it broke me..I had no idea until after we broke up..he didn’t even seem to have any remorse when I confronted him about it..this is what happens when you hook up…now here I am dating and in love with the most amazing man the Lord could have ever sent me…but that day I had to look at him and tell him..”before you really consider me you have to know I have an std”, that broke my heart…the decisions I made are not only affecting me but will affect the man I love now…there is by far a steep price you will have to pay for hooking up…I know I’ll be paying for it for the rest of my life!
Wow. “John Smith’s” comment should be an article all it’s own. Christians need to read and understand this.
Ageed!
ok Don. Great blog and deep thoughts about how Bill handled the situation.
But no blog about turning 40? As a fellow early 40 entry, was looking forward to your thought on the subject.
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