It makes sense at the end. I promise.
I believe people change, and I believe life can get better. I have changed, slowly and with time, the way a tree grows by a river. I have a very intelligent and conservative friend who teaches at a local Bible college, and he believes the only thing that truly changes a person is God’s truth, that is, His Word and His working in our lives through the Holy Spirit. This makes a lot of sense to me, because the times in my life when I have been most happy haven’t been the times when I’ve had the most money or the most freedom or the most anything, but rather when I’ve been in love or in community or right with people.
My friend at the Bible college believes the qualities that improve a person’s life are relational, relational to God and to the folks around us. This made a lot of sense, too, because when Jesus was walking around on earth He taught His disciples truths through experience, first telling them stories, then walking with them, then causing stuff to happen like a storm on the sea, then reiterating the idea He had taught them the day before. Even then it took years before the disciples understood, and even then the Holy Spirit had to come and wrap things up. So it made me realize that either God didn’t know about the formulas, or the formulas weren’t able to change a person’s heart.
To be honest, though, I don’t know how much I like the idea of my spirituality being relational. I suppose I believe it is true, but the formulas seem much better than God because the formulas offer control; and God, well, He is like a person, and people, as we all know, are complicated. The trouble with people is they do not always do what you tell them to do. Try it with your kids or your spouse or strangers at the grocery store, and you will see what I mean. The formulas propose that if you do this and this and this, God will respond. When I was a kid I wanted a dolphin for the same reason.
This passage was an excerpt from Searching for God Knows What.
God *is* a person, not *like* a person… well, God is three Persons…
Numbers 23:19-God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
The word “person” is not exactly the same as the word “man”.
That is true. But we say “mankind” or “humankind” not “personkind”. The point I was taking with Molly was not with the word person but the word *is* as opposed to *like* I think it’s important to remember that God in his word has to remind us he is not a man (meaning human). Yes we as mere humans need to think about him being human so that we can have a relationship with him like Donald Miller says. God knew we needed that so much that he sent his son…fully God,,,,fully human. That’s so awesome because it shows how much he wants a relationship with us! He knew humankind needed Jesus. SO the reason it’s important to think of God *like* a person and not as if he *is* a person is because He tells us word his is not. The really moving part about the Numbers verse I shared is that God says he’s not a human that he should lie…not keep his promises. So we can take great confidence in having a relationship with him because he won’t hurt us or let us down like every single person in the world has, is or will at some point. Also don’t forget… Abraham says who should I say sent me? God says tell them I AM sent you.
I think you are slightly off in quoting scripture…It wasnt Abraham that said who should I say sent me? It was Moses. It was bugging me a little because I noticed you said it again lower on in the other comments. So for sake of holding to truth, it was Moses not Abraham.
Amen.
I find that eventually I am worshipping the formulas instead of God.
Grace and Peace.
I agree. I think sometimes it is easier to wrap our heads around the formulas in Scripture which can cause us to elevate them. I think people elevate or even like the words of Paul (and Paul was also a man of action) more than they want to understand and know the actions and experiences of Jesus as truth.
Thanks for your words. I am always challenged to see God in a different, more infinite way and to seek Jesus first.
Amen sister! See that all too often within the walls of the church –even my own, at times. We do get too caught up in the living holy lifestyle, that we forget about how Jesus related to those around him.
The thing about relationships is that we don’t have total control. Honestly, that scares me, because I’m a control freak. I want the formula: my desires + my actions = the result that I want. When people get involved, the formula doesn’t usually work. When God gets involved, the formula doesn’t even exist. And that makes my inner control freak feel very, very small and even a little unsafe. But like C.S. Lewis says of Aslan, “Safe? He’s not safe…but he is good.” And his goodness changes us.
You lost me on the dolphin analogy. I don’t quite see the connection.
You can train a dolphin to do tricks. You do something, they respond. Sometimes I do that with God and thinking of it like training God to do tricks was a sucker punch in the gut.
So true. Love the caption on the dolpin pic -it always makes sense, later! Another fav book of mine -good reminders…the only thing we can control is how we choose to respond to the people in our lives -and the right, loving responses have to be governed from that love of God that overflows from us. I ‘ve often found that when I ‘m not responding the right way to people, it means that something has gone off balance, in my relationship with God. It all comes around again, full circle.
Thanks Don
God is like a person? or God is a person? Hmmm…
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
Genesis does say that we were made “in the image” of God. And – we’re people. “Persons” So – how does that work? Hmmm…
John 1 says “the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” This presents the problem of Jesus. Was He God? Or not?
I choose to believe He is. God the Son – but ALL God.
I once heard from a wise friend, “there is no God hiding behind Jesus.”
Jesus is either all God – or not “all” God.
If He’s all God, and Jesus is a person (flesh and blood – who walked in our very own history) then God is a person. The person – Jesus Christ.
If Jesus is not all God – then there are a load of other problems.
Trinity thoughts – gotta love ‘em! Didn’t even go into the relational aspect of the trinity. But – gettin’ way too heady. Still – love it!
Also – Eden – the context that you imply in your scripture (Numbers 23:19) is not the totality of the scripture’s meaning. In other words – that small little passage isn’t a declaration against God’s personhood. The scripture is intended to show that God is not fickle, like man.
But…that’s another story. Taking scripture out of context…
Have a good day!
Jeremy,
Please don’t think that I was sharing the Numbers 23 verse out of context, that wasn’t my intent. I really do agree with your points you brought up about Jesus being the word of God in flesh and dwelling among us and us being made in the image of God. If you look at the post I added to Molly’s response it may explain it a little more. (She had a similar post to yours). I just get a little nervous/defensive? when I hear people say that God IS a person. I believe Jesus is 100% God and 100% human which is another one of those mysteries that I will never wrap my head around on this side of eternity. I agree that the numbers verse is explaining that God is not fickle like man, that’s why I included the whole verse and not one segment of it. A great thing about knowing God… he is *like* a person in that I can have a relationship but he IS NOT a person because people lie and don’t keep their promises. Abraham was the first person after the fall to walk and talk with God and when Abraham said to God who shall I say sent me God answered, “tell them I AM sent you.” Who is God? The great I AM. Again things we can not wrap our heads around. Sorry I didn’t take more time in my first post to explain my intentions. Hope this helps?
dearest eden, if God is not a person how can He be personal? I think you might be confused with the physical being of a person versus the spirtual aspect of a person being his nature. I say amen to Jeremy Kerr and his previous post on that Jesus was and is God in the flesh.
The great thing about knowing God is…that he came in human flesh, condemned sin in the flesh (as it says in the book of Romans) died on the cross and rose from the dead, defeating and taking away the sting of death. In the old King James it says in Hebrews 1:3, “Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high…”
That word in Greek for person is (hypostasis) which means to have an actual existence, to have substance, a real being, the substantial quality, nature, of a person or thing.
Is God a person? Yes! He is three unique beings in one, He is personal. Is God like a person? Yes! The bible says Jesus came in the likeness of sinful flesh (Romans 8:3) and we beheld his glory. The word glory in Greek is (doxa) which means the absolutely perfect inward or personal excellency of Christ.
For the sake of truth of my brother/sister. May the Lord richly bless you!
********Thanks below to Joshua, I really appreciate the loving way in which you responded to my comments. I never knew anything about the Greek meaning of person being to have being, substance, and existence. When I look at it that way I absolutely agree. My only fear was that people were trying to down play the awesome “Godness” of God. Please understand the heart of what I said and forgive my mistake of mixing up Abraham and Moses, I was going by memory which was obviously foggy. And may the Lord richly bless you my brother!
(sorry didn’t realize it would post my reply below yours, new to this)
Joshua: I love those scriptures in Romans and Hebrews that you shared, and I believe what they reveal about God and his Son, Jesus is true. Even in my reply to Jeremy I didn’t disagree that Jesus was God in flesh. What I said was that He is 100% man and 100% God.
I think the initial response I had to his post…”God is like a person? Or God is a person?” Is that God can’t be simplified in that way that quickly. Joshua you used more words and really got to the heart of the matter. The reason I posted the numbers passage was that if someone is going to say “God is a person” and nothing else, then they need to be confronted with passages of scripture such as “God is not a man” found in Numbers. (I hope that Jeremy is in a body of believers, because I may have been wrong to take it upon my self to give him that scripture, our Church family is meant to challenge us in that way.) I know people try to sum God up but I’ve even read in Donald Millers books how that’s not good to do. We are meant to chew on scripture and wrestle with things, and I’m glad for it. I want to serve a God that is personal, awesome, and mysterious.
Joshua, after I read your post I read Psalm 139, I truly want God to search me and know my heart. And I’m encouraged by what I read there because it talks about how we are fearfully and wonderfully made, how we can’t get away from the presence of God, how he knows us in our inward parts. There is not a person in the world that can know me the way God knows me… He knows my thoughts afar off. These are all things that can not be said about a mere person. And all I wanted to point out to Jeremy was the richness of God he is not a man that he should lie…he keeps his promises…he doesn’t lie.
He’s omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, the Alpha and Omega, Creator of every living thing, King of Kings, Father, Son, Holy Ghost, Prince of Peace, Immanuel (God with us), Our Great Shepard, The Way, Truth, and Life, The Word, Love, Sacrificial Lamb…etc.
again more then a person.
GOD IS.
I’m thankful for Jesus and the redemptive work he’s doing inside me to bring me into a relationship with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For me that includes being reverent/respectful of the awesomeness that is HIM.
I definitely agree because giving up control as well as letting God’s truth change me are the two toughest things pressing down on me. The way I seemed to start life out is, I am staring in my own ‘life movie’, and y’all are my co-stars… Then I realize that you all are staring in your own movie which then makes me your co-star. Which then confuses me. So no matter how hard I try handing out my script for everyone to follow, no one’s paying a lick of attention, because they’re busy handing out their own scripts. This makes life chaotic to say the least. Then, when I finally give up the control of it all, throw my hands in the air and, gulp, go with the flow. It occurs to me, there is one movie, one star… God. We are all co-stars, His Truth leads the story, everything perfectly written, the joy, mistakes, suffering, climax… All His writing, His script. We are all definitely in a relationship according to His plan. Supporting actors, supporting His truths, supporting each other…So I’m gonna just grab some popcorn and a Cherry Coke and just try to relax
Nicely put!
I have learned when I stop putting expectations on God, I actually enjoy his presence and life is much more meaningful. By the way LOVED A Million Miles in a Thousand Years, I’m a writer myself and that book…well, lets say I laughed, I cried, I took notes, I pasted bits of it as my status on facebook, and I have told tons of people to read it. Well done…now I have to go jump in the river
Love God above all others, and love your neighbor like yourself, there is no other commandment greater than these. We were created for relationships, and it’s not like capitalism. If you “do good” to gain in the eyes of God, to build your heavenly portfolio, you have selfish motivation. We are to love others because he first loved us.
So true!
Yours thoughts remind of the parable in Matt 20:1-16 about the workers in the vineyard as well as Jesus’ conversation with Nicodemus found in John 3… Nicodemus sounded like he wanted a formula but Jesus said..”the wind blows where it blows”
One of the reasons why I love coaching volleyball is discovering/teaching the real secret to success – TEAM…The team aspect, the relational bond, the “machine” that is created when all the parts are working together is incredible to foster, to build, and to watch occur. As I have gotten older and spent more years doing this, the mentoring/discipling side of coaching (and teaching) has become a privilege and a blessing, and a much greater focus of mine.
The lessons learned (that parallel life) in team sports are extraordinary.
I regret the days that I didn’t take advantage of the time and circumstance God set before me in this area, and I pray I seize them much more often.
Anyways, terrific post!
Oh, and one of the “greatest” days of my life is when my world fell apart, and my formulas got flushed down the toilet right after it.
I thank God each day for showing me there is so much more to life than a formula: the heart, the depth, the love, the people, the adventure!
(volleyball teaches you that too…but I will stop commenting.
)
I really hated the formulaic nature of Christianity when I was a Christian. It was something I always found myself having to combat. I think a lot of people need the formulas in order to thrive in the system, though. They take one step beyond the presuppositions required to be a Christian and take on the suppositions of what that is supposed to look like by following formulas.
All in all, formulas often do make God a device for our own means, as it seems you’re insinuating here. God gets boxed in a lot. It almost seems inevitable?
Good concept but you never give examples of formulas ppl follow so one would practically recognise them
Good words, Don. I wonder how much our “Christian formulas” prohibit us from experiencing the type of relationship that could be possible with God? Imagine what would happen if we approached our families, friends or anyone else the way we approach God. Maybe that’s one of the reasons Christians get burned out.
“So it made me realize that either God didn’t know about the formulas, or the formulas weren’t able to change a person’s heart.” What a great line!