Today’s guest post is from me, Jordan Green, the guy posting these guest posts. I’m the editor-in-chief of BurnsideWriters.com. You can follow me on Twitter.
I would generally consider myself a pacifist. I say “generally”, because I don’t really know how I’d react in a given situation. If, for instance, a crazed hobo woman attacked my daughter, I’m fairly certain I would resort to physical violence in order to get her to stop. So maybe I’m a pacifist when it comes to larger communities, like nation-states and youth groups. Because of my semi-pacifist philosophy, I’ve always had one major hang-up with narrative morality, an idea this blog’s esteemed owner discusses in A Million Miles in a Thousand Years. That hang-up is this: when played out in story, revenge is sort of awesome.
For instance, I’m reading through George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire series right now, and there are plenty of characters in this epic, sprawling fantasy series who I want to pay. And I don’t want them merely brought to justice in a court of law and imprisoned for life. They are evil people, and I want them to die the most painful deaths possible. Most of them do end up dying horrific deaths, simply because (SPOILER ALERT) a lot of people die in these books.(END SPOILER ALERT)
Of course, the characters in Martin’s novels aren’t real, but real life has its share of bad guys. The latter half of the 20th century seemed to mark a turn away from Old Testament-style justice. Adolph Hitler: committed suicide to avoid capture by the Red Army. Joseph Stalin: died of a cerebral hemorrhage at 74. Pol Pot: died at home of a heart attack. Slobodan Milosevic: heart attack while under trial for war crimes. Saddam Hussein: hanged after being convicted for crimes against humanity. The point is, the deaths of some of the 20th century’s worst people were decidedly unlike that of your average Bond villain.
Then, in the last six months, Osama Bin Laden and Muammar Gaddafi died extremely violent deaths. The former, of course, was shot in the head during a raid by US forces. The latter was captured in a hole, beaten viciously, and, according to some reports, took around 30 minutes to die after being shot in the head and chest.
Now, I know I am supposed to love my enemies, to pray for them and even bless them. I know this because it is discussed pointedly in Romans, Luke, 1 Peter and 1 John. But what’s curious to me is how these deaths feel to me from a purely narrative standpoint. And, if I’m honest, the deaths of Osama Bin Laden and Muammar Gaddafi feel somewhat…well…right. As much as I tell myself the death of a human being should never be celebrated, I do at least feel some satisfaction knowing these men are gone. Gaddafi was a madman who ruled with an iron hand, who lived in unchecked opulence while his people suffered. Osama Bin Laden was Osama Bin Laden. One of the key components of Protestant Christianity is the belief we do not get what we deserve, that through following Christ all sin is absolved, but there is still a very real part of us that wants to see certain people get what’s coming to them, from cruel despots to schoolyard bullies. If narrative morality is ingrained in us by our creator — and I think for the most part it is — why is vengeance so undeniably gratifying?
The easiest answer is to say we want justice, and that’s partly true. We yearn for God to put the world right. But there’s more to it than that. One of my favorite stories takes place in Corrie Ten Boom’s book Tramp for the Lord. Ms. Ten Boom is lecturing in Germany when she is approached by a man whom she quickly recognizes as a particularly brutal Ravensbruck guard. Before he can speak, she forgives him:
“For a long moment, we grasped each other’s hands, the former guard and the former prisoner. I had never known God’s love so intensely as I did then.”
What we truly want is for villains to repent. Ideally, we want a villain to understand what he did was wrong, and redeem his horrible actions. When that doesn’t suffice, we want him to realize he was not as powerful as he thought. This is why, when a villain dies in a story, we are shown his reaction one last time as he plummets to his death or realizes a bomb is about to explode. We want to see him recognize he is a broken man.
The question from there is whether we want our villains forgiven, and I suspect that’s a matter of perspective. Did anyone really want Die Hard to end with John McClane forgiving Hans Gruber, grasping hands, and experiencing God’s love? Doubtful, but this is partly because Hans Gruber is not a real human. He’s an avatar for evil. Real people are a lot messier, with compounding factors like traumatic childhood experiences and mental illness.
Like all sin, we each have our limits. The tools God gives us to push those limits — empathy and a willingness to cede control of our lives — are crucial in determining our reactions. If I had known Muammar Gaddafi, or Osama Bin Laden, I wonder if that glimmer of satisfaction I felt would’ve been diminished completely, and a story read as justice served would more closely resemble a tragedy.
You hit on a lot of points I have been wrestling with for awhile now. Thanks for having the courage to explore these aspects of our humanity.
Yes, me, too…Thanks!!
Powerful post, Jordan. That tension between someone’s death feeling right and loving our enemies is one all Christians struggle with. It’s not easy to truly love and forgive our enemies, and Christ never said it would be, but it’s what we’re commanded to do.
Thanks for the piece, it’s good. You’re right on the detachment from actual humanity that we have with the “Hans Grubers” – usually these movies show nothing redeemable about these individuals.
I was intrigued by this statement, “If, for instance, a crazed hobo woman attacked my daughter, I’m fairly certain I would resort to physical violence in order to get her to stop. So maybe I’m a pacifist when it comes to larger communities, like nation-states and youth groups.”
My initial reaction is that maybe this is backward. If we are to be a pacifist, it ought to be our own way of life first. Granted, I don’t know your precise understanding of pacifism, but nations sometimes need to execute justice for the preservation of people, just as we fathers do when we run into the crazed hobo women. Where and when that is to occur is certainly up for debate. But, how can a nation-state be held to a ‘higher’ standard than the people within? I think Jesus’ message is to revolutionize individuals. If the message of God is not for individuals to be pacifists, then how can it be for their nation? Of course, the crazed hobo woman presents imminent danger. It is hard to get a sense of how imminent danger can be on a global level when we have to debate and get our camera crews on location before we can convince the powers that be that something is a just cause.
I think you’re right, Marc, in that true pacifism has to begin on the individual level, and I guess that’s why I can’t fully say I’m a pacifist. But I do think the turn-the-other-cheek thing Jesus talked about should be taken quite literally. If someone was attacking my daughter, maybe that’s different, because then I’m protecting someone else. But if I was literally hit in the face or attacked, I think the action most in line with Christ would be to not fight back. Now, how I would ACTUALLY behave in that situation is another matter, but I know how I would want to behave.
What a powerful question… “How can a nation-state be held to a ‘higher’ standard than the people within?”
As a comment to Jordan’s response: My understanding of the turn-the-other-cheek passage is that many scholars recognize it as having cultural undertones; that ‘turning the other cheek’ forced your attacker to strike you with their “clean” hand, thereby forcing them into a bit of a quandry.
If they strike out again, then they have to use the hand they would use for an equal.
So for some, reading this passage is saying: If someone lashes out at you, puts you down, treats you as dirt; turn the tables on them. Stand up for your place as an equal and if they still lash out, then so be it, but you will not be treated as dirt. To me, this is not a gentle pacifist.
Incidently, I am quite comfortable the pacifist Jesus… this other Jesus is a challenge to me.
I certainly wouldn’t suppose to know exactly what Jesus meant or even that he meant only one thing. But it does fascinate me to think of that passage in a new cultural light.
Dang, this is good, Jordan. I struggled with the fact that I was more angry at my Christian friends’ fist-pumping response to Bin Laden’s death than I probably was at Bin Laden himself. I wanted every believer to see him as someone’s baby boy gone wrong, or as a man created in God’s image, but who bought into lies of a very real Satan. But as nobody wants to acknowledge Satan’s influence these days, likewise few are willing to see bad guys as humans in need of a Savior.
That last statement — “If I had known them…” — seems so important: that our job as Christians is to do whatever we can to humanize “villains,” even though we do not condone their actions, and concurrently find and address our own villainy.
i have been struggling with this dilemma for a few weeks. My dad was brutally killed during a burglary 24 years ago. the guy who did it had been out of prison 3 days for another burglary and murder. In the first one however a witness recanted his story and they could only pin the burglary on him. He received a 3 year sentence.
Plain and simple I want revenge. I want him to die. I don’t think his life is worth the money to imprison him. In my mind and heart he is a worthless human. The thought of anyone showing him kindness makes me soooo angry. And of course there is the obligatory defense of a hard childhood. Whatever.
and then in the midst of my anger I am reminded of a song by JJ Heller called Only Love Remains. One of the first lines is “I know that I deserve to die for the murder in my heart, so be gentle with my Jesus as you’re tearing me apart”.
It is at that point that I need to give up my need for revenge. The point when Jesus so gently reminds me that I, in my own heart, am not better than the man that killed my dad. And then he reminds me that his death payed for both the murder of my dad and the murder that exists in my own heart.
I am so very sorry for your pain in regards to your dad. I can’t even imagine.
I too had to forgive someone, and it was difficult, and honestly, somedays I wonder if I really have or if I have just shuffled it off…but either way, one way I have at least partially forgiven is truly realizing that vengeance is the Lord’s.
Just like me, he must face God for his actions, for the destruction he caused.
God knows WAY better than me what needs to take place. Whatever I chose as vengeance would probably destroy me in the process and wouldn’t even “work”, but however God chooses to handle it, it will be good, it will be right, it will be just.
I take great comfort in knowing that, and I certainly have found great freedom in that as well.
Prayers for you Beth, and may God shower you with His peace and bring healing to both your heart and your soul.
Dear Shellybell,
Thank you for sharing your story. Praying that God would also continue to bring His peace and healing to you.
Beth, I don’t know if you will ever look back on this, but I thought of you yesterday as I listened to Keep Your Eyes Open by NeedtoBreathe, and then again today as I read Psalm 37. I prayed for you and I will continue to do so.
Fret not yourself because of evildoers; be not envious of wrongdoers!
For they will soon fade like the grass and wither like the green herb.
Trust in the LORD, and do good;
dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.
Delight yourself in the LORD, and He will give you the desires of your heart.
Commit your way to the LORD; trust in Him, and He will act.
He will bring forth your righteousness as the light,
and your justice as the noonday.
Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him;
fret not yourself over the one who prospers in his way, over the man who carries out evil devices!
Refrain from anger, and forsake wrath!
Fret not yourself; it tends only to evil.
For the evildoers shall be cut off, but those who wait for the LORD shall inherit the land.
In just a little while, the wicked will be no more; though you look carefully at his place, he will not be there.
But the meek shall inherit the land and delight themselves in abundant peace.
Dear Beth,
I am sorry for your great loss and I am humbled at your response to Jesus’ loving touch on your heart. Thank you for sharing so bravely and honestly.
Praying that God would wrap His arms of love around you and continue to be with you as you grieve.
Handled very well, Jordan. Well done.
If I’m honest, it sounds less like it’s coming from a purely narrative standpoint. I don’t think it’s wise to postulate on that and come out with a point of being satisfied with their deaths.
I disagree with finding satisfaction in the death of tyrants. Citing movies and fiction as a reference for a requirement for revenge isn’t good enough to make that kind of point, even in this context. Yeah Die Hard would have been terrible with your ending, but it’s a suspension of reality, and not something that can be cited as us not wanting God’s higher form of justice and the salvation of others.
I think regardless of what a person does, that they do not deserve to be robbed of life and the opportunity to turn to God. I think the part of us that wants people to “get what’s coming to them” is relinquished unto God as said countless times in the Psalms, with David deferring to God to take out the revenge on these individuals.
The more I think about this the more I wholeheartedly disagree. Is not eternal damnation enough? Is separation from God for all eternity (in whatever form, be it fire and brimstone or not) not enough of a punishment for these tyrants? All sin regardless of form is against God right? And it’s Him who deals the final punishment. This life is as close to heaven as these guys are ever going to get, where is the mercy?
Gaddafi’s case, sure i’m not one of those Lybians who’s lost family members during the brutal parts of his reign. I’m also not one of the many fighting for freedom of their country tooth and nail all the way to the end. I understand why the soldiers shot him and I emphasise with their need for revenge. But I don’t agree, I understand the rage and anger and brutality that they want to exact, but it doesn’t make it somewhat…well…right.
Christ is the source of my morality, not the need to avenge someone who has wronged me. The rest of the world may not agree as they may not believe in Christ, they may put people to death for their crimes and I will understand, but we are called to love our enemies.
For the record, Jimbo, I agree with almost everything you say here. (The only exception might be the “Is not eternal damnation enough?” because it seems even worse for me to find satisfaction in someone’s damnation than it does to be satisfied with their earthly demise.) I don’t think feeling satisfaction with their death is right or good, but I can’t deny the reaction it causes in me, and my purpose here was to determine what that reaction was and why it feels that way? Is it purely cultural? Is it a perversion of something legitimately holy?
In the case of Osama Bin Laden’s death, I think my gut feeling was more thankful that this Quixotic quest the US has been on for a decade was finally over. There wasn’t particularly satisfaction about the guy being dead. With Gaddafi, there was something about the narrative where I projected my desire that Gaddafi would be confronted with the evil he perpetuated. I have a feeling he, like most other despots, believed he was doing right by his people even when he was hurting them. Some part of me hopes seeing his people rise up against him caused him to realize he was wrong.
I didn’t get into it much, but the other key person on this list to me was Slobodan Milosevic. I served in Bosnia for a time, and I’m fairly familiar with the ins and outs of the Balkan Wars, and the fact that Milosevic was still playing the victim card throughout his entire trial, depicting his Serbian nationalists as heroes valiantly fighting against the Muslim, Croat, and NATO overlords made me really angry. It’s not that I expected anything else, but that he would die without even being convicted of his crimes seemed unsatisfying. I wanted him to know what he’d done was evil. I’m sure he knows now, I guess.
Hey Jordan.
Thanks for clearing it up a bit, sorry if it seemed that I was riling against you harshly. I just feel passionately about forgiveness and compassion and it seemed as though they were being thrown out the window, when actually if i’m getting this right, you were just seeking a sense of honesty about how we feel. Which I totally get, my best prayers come from the times of not wanting to forgive someone and confessing that to God and working with it and wrestling with it and allowing his work to become perfect in my weakness.
I’m sorry if my post seemed like an attack on you and I thank you for your grace, your compassion and your honesty, as brutal as it may seem.
Thank you for the dialogue.
Oh, no worries, Jimbo. Didn’t feel like an attack at all. I tend to think I’m less inclined toward revenge than others, but I was still ashamed of how I felt toward those two men. Thanks for commenting!
thanks! An original post! I have sometimes wondered if I was wrong for not celebrating those men’s deaths. Yes, I do feel that inkling that them being gone is well, right, but I also have that inkling that to celebrate would be well, wrong.
I like your post, Jordan. Someone I know personally is causing heartbreak and chaos in his family. Although I’d like to “Jesus slap” him, I would rather he come to know the love and forgiveness of Christ and escape the tragedy his life has become.
Huge questions here…reminds me of The Sunflower by Simon Wiesenthal. My husband and I had a similar discussion after Gaddafi’s death. Easy to say what I wouldn’t do…but if faced with someone who, say, harmed my children or granddaughter, would I succumb to the moment? Years ago, John Rutland who was, during the Civil Rights movement, senior pastor at Woodlawn UMC in Birmingham, shared something with me. He and his family lived through threats, awoke to crosses burning in their front yard, but never wavered in their support of the black community. A kinder man I’ve never known…strong and honest, sometimes to a fault. I was struggling with a difficult relationship, not on the level of those you name, but one that was fraught with evil. A family member, one who had been badly abused as a child. I tried as best I could to forgive this person for the deep hurt heaped on my husband and others. We weren’t often together, but a few moments were enough for the damaging words to sear. One day I remarked to John Rutland that I was dreading the coming weekend when we would once again see this relative. I added that my prayers seemed to be getting nowhere. He commented that I must not be praying honestly. Noting the twitch in my left eyebrow, he continued. “I bet you’re asking God to bless this person.” “Well, yes.” “Is this what you truly want? Honestly?” “Well, no. I just want peace.” “So give God something to work with. Be honest. Now I’m a profane old man so you don’t have to sink to my level. But when I pray for someone I can’t stand (and being a preacher the list is long), I start out, “God, you’re going to have to love this [insert appropriate inappropriate phrase] FOR me because, frankly, I don’t want to love him. But I know you do. After a few weeks, my heart starts to change and my prayer becomes less hostile. Sometimes, because I’m stubborn, it takes a while but eventually the harsh feelings dissipate. Not good boundaries but the meanness.” So I tried this. “Please love this person for me. I can’t.” Months passed. The prayer softened a bit. We made the trek for the family visit. Two things happened as we were leaving. I realized I didn’t have a headache. Then, I heard this woman whom I could never please call out, “I didn’t get a hug.” I got out of the car and hugged her. There was no warm and fuzzy moment, only surprise. I had said once that I would do whatever was necessary, up to and including changing her Depends, but I could never love her. Somehow, both came true in this case. She seemed to sense forgiveness. Her religion was harsh, grace-less, but as my fear level dropped, she seemed to sense within herself the forgiveness she desperately wanted. I’ve prayed this in other circumstances with no obvious resolution…except within me. I think I have to ask not only for forgiveness for myself but for the forgiveness I give others. I can’t generate this within myself. Another friend made an observation that has also remained with me. She wrote this to another about a mutual acquaintance who had committed murder: “She always had an edge. It was sharper than any of us could imagine. It just goes to show that on some things you should trust your instincts. You have a good heart, that should never change. You do think that poeple are like you. They aren’t. Take a moment to think of it from their perspective. It’s not pretty. Don’t rush to fix everything. Trust your friends and your instincts. It is not good to please the truly evil, and not possible. They deserve our pity, but not our good will.” Walking the line between justice and mercy, between forgiveness and pleasing the truly evil…only God can lead this journey.
A couple more thoughts/questions for all of us professing believers:
1. When you find out a mass murderer, such as Ted Bundy or Jeffery Dahmer, found Jesus before dying, do you rejoice that they will be spending eternity with Jesus and not be hell-bound? How about if Hitler, Bin Laden or Stalin had met the same fate? How would you feel about the above situation if your loved one were a victim of the killer?
2. The most realistic “bad guy” in any good movie which comes to mind is, ironically, drawn by hand. In the Pixar film “Up”, we see Charles F. Muntz do some dastardly things, and he does in fact die in the end. But we also see that he was once a good man, a hero. He turned to the dark side because of the hurts which accompanied false accusations directed toward him. The reality is that the worst abuser, murderer, gang member, etc., didn’t start that way. Their terrible decisions are the result of a lifetime of severe hurts. Doesn’t mean we excuse them. It does, however, help us see their lives and deaths as ultimately sad events.
Jordan, thanks for broaching this topic. I, as it seems most of us commenting here, have struggled with celebration of the death of the evil. And I appreciate those who have shared their painful stories here. That always makes the conversation concrete.
As an idealist, I think my pacifism approaches radical pacifism. As a realist, I’ve tried to process whether my pacifism would be just as radical. I’m not sure, but I think it could be close. A few years back, a guy I worked with was badgering me about pacifism. He said, “Well, what if a guy was [doing something awful] to your daughter?” I said I wasn’t sure that I would use lethal force to stop him. He thought I was crazy and said, “Well, you just don’t have kids yet. Wait till you do, and then you’ll understand.” Two years on with our adorable little girl and another on the way, I’m still not sure I would injure someone seriously to “protect” my child. I would certainly do my best to stop what was happening through words and physical restraint.
More to your point, I’m not sure I or the state have the right to determine when someone is unredeemable and must be terminated. God is the only one who knows our hearts and can decide when it’s over. Overpredestinarians will say that God’s will obviously happened, since it happened. I think God gives us a bit more leash than that. I want to be a guy who extends the love Corrie ten Boom exhibited, playing God in the best sense, rather than playing the most difficult part of God by doing something irrevocable. If it turns out badly for me? I get my life back at the resurrection. There will be real pain for those left behind, but the story will resolve perfectly in the end.
I totally agree. Debates on pacifism are almost always looking at the small, immediate picture. For instance, most pacifists would point to World War II as being a necessary instance of war, but they don’t realize how the Allies unforgiving peace agreements after World War I essentially caused the rise of fascism in Germany.
Not using lethal force seems like a completely reasonable alternative. Becoming a father causes people to go through all sorts of mental leaps, and I think the very idea of protecting one’s family (rather than trusting God) causes people to make all sorts of justifications. This is far too large of an idea to pound out in one comment, but, essentially, I agree.
We often want justice for others, but want grace for ourselves…
Great post. You’ve hit on the very things that often bug me in movies. I would add that the other problem with the ways movies end is that violence and revenge are often presented as resolutions, whereas they usually just start a cycle of violence. I saw this first hand while studying in Israel. Someone needs to take a punch and stop hitting back, and the only way to really make it work is if the stronger party takes that step.
Regarding pacifism, I also relate to your struggles with all of this. As to personal violence, it’s easy to overlook the fact that Jesus told his disciples to buy a sword in addition to an extra cloak! That makes me wonder what the ethic of Jesus would be in terms of personal defense. For larger nation state matters, the main complication we face now is the prospect of nuclear and chemical weapons, that seem to urge us toward pacifism for large-scale conflicts. I don’t think Aquinas saw those kinds of weapons about when he developed the Just War Theory!
Square in the chest. Thanks for that perspective.
This was an awesome post! I really struggled with the most recent of the two deaths. I grew up in a politically conservative home and had been at college for only a semester. That death was viewed as great. Now, several years later when these other two deaths occurred I really struggled with how I should feel about them. Should I rejoice? These men were terrible, evil people! But at the same time they died without our Savior. It was a major struggle for me, one that I revisited as I read your post.
I have much appreciation for your candid thoughts. It’s amazing to me how when one shares open and honestly how it is contagious to others to think beyond the surface and in turn be honest with themselves. Which leads to “growth” on so many levels.
Destroy your enemies
by making them friends. – Abraham Lincoln
Sounds like a Jesus thing to me.
Those are George R. R. Martin books are graphic and intense! They really are good though. I should re read them…
this reminds me of a guest speaker i heard on sunday. he was giving the classic “easter in October” sermon and admitted that the guy on the cross next to jesus bothered him. alot. that the guy had a lot of nerve expecting absolution at the final hour, after being able to live like a criminal (ok he was one) every other day of his life.
I’m wondering what your take on this piece of history is?
while i appreciated his honesty, it kinda took me by surprise. because i’d always thought the guy was quite unassuming in his simple request to be remembered. and i’ve always been a bit captivated by his sense of imagination, to see a savior behind all the blood and incapacitation.
Hi I didn’t read all the responses but I think you hot a nerve. Bottom line for me is this: you rape and kill my loved one I don’t want revenge I want you to suffer in the same manner. I have a huge amount of empathy and love for all mankind but when it comes to humans doing horrific acts on others, my empathy for their poor upbringing is useless. I say publicly do the same to the offender. Maybe would stop a lot of awful events on earth. Thanks for your honest post.
I’m pretty much the antithesis of a pacifist. (I think Ghadaffi and Bin Laden pretty much got what they had coming to them.) I tend to think of pacifists as moral cowards, but the Bible clearly talks about the role of forgiveness and that isn’t something I can ignore.
If someone attacks my family, I’m going to kill him/her. But… that kind of clarity doesn’t happen much outside of the movies. The urge for revenge and the accompanying bitterness is toxic to the soul and the body.
I did not celebrate when ghadaffi and bin laden died, reason being, it didn’t feel right. I didn’t join in the forces on social networks and shout woo hoo! In silence though, I felt the world will be a better place without them. And truthfully, it is because neither one of them caused harm to me personally, or someone I love. I do have great empathy to those that suffered under them.
My daughter was recently raped. Do I want revenge?….I am a mother, what do you think? Will I seek revenge? possibly. This attacker caused un-Godly feelings in me, feelings I have never experienced. Such ugly, vile feelings, almost as if he took up residence in me, in the place where I held such love…my very core. Not only is this person my enemy, so is my pain, and I do not want to love either one of them, or become friends with them. This evil, both the attacker and my need for revenge, has put my spiritual and physical health at great risk, what would the Lord want me to do with this? Does He want me to suffer? I feel so ugly on the inside that I don’t believe the Lord can shine His eyes upon me right now. I did NOT invite these unwanted guests to live in me, surely God must know that.
God wants you to be honest with him about how you feel and take it to him. He isn’t condemning you. He wants to take you in his arms and comfort you while reassuring you that he is not only our loving Pa Pa but a God of justice and in control. It’s vile and disgusting what happened. Your reaction is totally understanding. There is a season for everthing under the sun. A time to love and a time to hate, a time to mourn and a time to dance. I’m not saying we should hate a person but Jesus has you covered as you continue to lean on him to see you through. Do know that God makes everything beautiful in its time. Honesty with God is key.
I slso don’t feel all your feelings are unGodly in this but I won’t speak for God because your heart is too precious and it isn’t my place. Just something you may want to consider with him. I don’t doubt he is angered at the situation too.
Praying for you tonight SGS. I can’t IMAGINE the pain and anger you rightfully feel. God understands that pain. God does know that you did not invite any of this in.
Personally, I would be experiencing anger with God. I would want to know why He allowed such awful, horrific things to happen to my daughter. And the times I have experienced moments like that (being angry with God) I have told Him, yelled, cried, screamed, and begged Him to help me understand, to heal, to find my way out of the darkness.
I didn’t know what else to do but beg from the depths within me for Him to rescue me from the dark pit I was in.
I will be praying for you and your daughter as you heal in infinite areas that have been wounded.
May God’s power overflow you, may His comfort overwhelm you, and may His love be tangible to you each step of the way.
Anytime anyone goes possibly without the Lord it is a tragedy. I believe that is coming from our Lord’s perspective while also recognizing how it may better serve humanity for their time to close. David wept whole-heartedly for Saul and his end and he was called a man after God’s own heart.
Jordon, I liked the line that in the fictional story a person is “an avatar for evil.” I love it. Yes, in fiction the “avatar” has to be punished. But it is true also in the real world. When you look at the book of Leviticus and see the offerings that are made to God, real live animals were sacrificed. Punishment must be dealt out for sin. Thankfully, God provides that with substitutionary punishment of, the animal in the Old Testament, and Jesus in the New Testament.
Sadly, I have no avatar that steps in and sins on my behalf. I am fully guilty of my own poor actions. Thank God for Jesus.
Thanks to you also. I very much liked what you wrote.
I believe Jesus took my sins and punishment, but the bible also speaks of God not being mocked and reaping what we sow. I do believe there is grace even for that, but if we continue in our old ways we may have to reap what we sow.
Thanks so much for your excellently written post Jordan. It was very nice reading a reaction and opinion so close to that of my own…this mixture between relief, satisfaction, excitement and sadness. I wrote a post with very similar themes after Bin Ladin died, and reposted it after Gaddhafi died. I don’t know if I’m breaking any rules by posting a link to my post, but I’d be honored to have you or your readers check it out. Cheers.
http://jtrammellblog.blogspot.com/2011/10/hearts-of-darkness.html
I agree that we need to humanize those faceless villains. This should include ALL villains, including Democrats, homosexuals, government officials, and the like. To show a relationship with Christ, we should try to emulate how Jesus was to the “undesirables” of his culture.
Im so glad I don’t go to church anymore.
I think you should watch the movie “Blade Runner.” It’s a really interesting movie, especially with the ending.
A deep post, Jordan.
Funny you should reference ‘Song of Ice and Fire’. I watched season one of the TV version on HBO (Game of Thrones) and wrestled regularly with all the violence in it and my own feelings toward the despicable characters (and so far, few AREN’T despicable!). If nothing else it certainly speaks to the ugliness of hatred and war.
i know for myself,my feeling of justice and revenge would have definitely come from the things ive experienced in my childhood years..having parents that were abusive in every way…its like,once youve finally snapped out of it enough to see how crazy a system was,then its like,you want justice because of the wrongs,and the losses done…i think its moreso a sense of loss,of what could have been…i feel our senses of such tings might come from what was done,and passed onto us..just my opinion…now?…im not so sure anyone can truly know how theyd react until theyre either in the situation,or have enough of a new paradigm that,the mind knows due to the prior priming..